Jo Walton ([info]papersky) wrote,
@ 2004-09-09 13:39:00
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Worldcon: business
I always think that I pretend that I'm going to cons on business as a kind of legal and acceptable tax-dodge -- and indeed I generally do sufficient pinning down of my editor at them that I'm sure they quite legitimately count for that purpose. This one was different in a couple of ways.

The divide between being there as a fan and as a pro has somehow got bigger -- or it's more noticeable at worldcons. I really don't like the idea that people wouldn't approach me because I'm a pro. It bothers me about fifty different ways, and the worst one is that if lots of nice people do that I'll only end up meeting the pushy ones.

I didn't have an autographing session, but about a zillion people asked me to sign books, mostly Tooth and Claw. I also estimate that about 10% of everyone who had bought it came up to me and told me that they love it. This was very gratifying. (It comes out in paperback in November. Buy it for all your friends for Santamass.)

I was standing at Elise's stall and was introduced to a guy who's starting a fantasy line at a French publisher. "Gosh," I said. "Publish me, I live in Montreal, and having a French edition would do so much for my social life!" He laughed and gave me his card. I mentioned this in passing to my agent when we had lunch. He asked me to email him the guy's details when I got home. Later that day, another agent and editor came up and asked me about this and asked me to do the same for him. I thought I was standing at Elise's stall making conversation, but they were definitely doing business.

I've started reading authors myself because they were interesting on panels. (C.J. Cherryh positively leaps to mind.) I'm aware that people do that, and do believe that going to a worldcon will put me in front of potential readers in a useful way. But I always thought of this as an excuse to go to a worldcon, not a reason to go, if you see the difference.

Eh well, these are problems I'd have given large quantities of body-parts to have had ten years ago, so I shouldn't complain.

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[info]mrissa
2004-09-09 11:06 am UTC (link)
My problem with approaching people -- and this goes for fans as well as pros -- is that unless I know someone and I know they know me, I have a hard time walking up to someone with nothing more to say than, "How are you?" Intellectually I realize that "How are you?" or "How was your flight?" on the first day and "Are you having a good con?" on other days is a perfectly reasonable thing to say, and I have never once had a problem with it seguing into conversation. It's just the initial leap. I'm quite aware that most people at cons know a bunch of other people and don't get to see them very often. So I look at one of them picking up her purse after a panel and think, "Do I really want to interrupt one of two in-person conversations she gets to have with a good friend this year?" And the answer is generally no, not so much. Take Jon Singer, for example: from my perspective, it appears that this man knows everybody. I met him at MiniCon, but had he not smiled and waved at me on...uhh...Sunday? of WorldCon, I would not have dreamed of swapping howdies, because there are a thousand and one people around he knows better than me, and in less than a week they will all be back to their homes and away.

The thing I keep trying to remember is that the reason people know other people is that they talked to them at cons. There are a few "oh, yes, I went to high school with this person" exceptions, but for the most part, that's how it works.

You were friendly and nice when I was drooling at [info]elisem's booth two cons in a row now, so you are officially Approachable, for what that's worth.

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[info]papersky
2004-09-09 11:23 am UTC (link)
But how am I ever going to meet new people if everyone feels like that?

All the people I know at US cons I know because I know them online or I met them at cons. No exceptions.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)
(no subject) - [info]lensedqso, 2004-09-09 11:45 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]mrissa, 2004-09-09 11:45 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]trinker, 2004-09-09 12:16 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]lisajulie
2004-09-09 01:06 pm UTC (link)
Jon Singer does indeed know everybody, But he got that way by swapping howdies at any opportunity he gets. So, the next time you see him at a convention or wherever - walk right up, say hi, and start talking (or listening).

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kate_nepveu, 2004-09-09 01:20 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]papersky, 2004-09-09 02:04 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kate_nepveu, 2004-09-09 05:30 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]papersky, 2004-09-10 04:09 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kate_nepveu, 2004-09-10 06:44 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]bohemiancoast, 2004-09-09 01:26 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]lisajulie, 2004-09-09 01:41 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]papersky, 2004-09-09 02:06 pm UTC (Expand)
Retreating downstairs -- - [info]jonsinger, 2004-09-10 08:32 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]rivka, 2004-09-10 07:52 am UTC (Expand)
On knowing anyone and everyone -- - [info]jonsinger, 2004-09-10 01:38 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]lisajulie, 2004-09-10 09:50 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]xiphias
2004-09-09 11:18 am UTC (link)
I find that I am no more uncomfortable approaching pros than I am approaching everyone else. Which is "very uncomfortable." Oh, well.

But one of the reasons I love fandom is that I DO get to, y'know, make sure that the person who wrote my all-time favorite Star Trek novel doesn't carry any heavy objects, or complement another favorite novelist about her necklace that Elise made for her, and like that. And there is a bit of the "it's so cool that I'm friends with someone who wrote The King's Peace and Tooth and Claw."

(Reply to this)(Thread)

[info]elisem
2004-09-14 12:12 am UTC (link)
But one of the reasons I love fandom is that I DO get to, y'know, make sure that the person who wrote my all-time favorite Star Trek novel doesn't carry any heavy objects

You are absolutely a good person, and thank you for that, because it made a major positive difference.

Also, I think you're now a member of the Society for the Preservation of Mike, if you'd like to be. (And I have a question or two to ask if you will consult on, come to think of it; will e-mail you when I get home.)

E,
waving hello

(Reply to this)(Parent)
Me Too, but not quite.
[info]chakaal
2004-09-09 11:19 am UTC (link)
Ah, the inestimable Jon Singer.

There is a cute photo of Jon up at www.tanstaafl.com/Noreascon/Noreascon.html - I never ran into you or I'd have asked to take your picture as well.



(Reply to this)(Thread)
Re: Me Too, but not quite.
[info]ckd
2004-09-09 12:37 pm UTC (link)
Hey, some of those photos look familiar. Did we meet in the Baen party? If so, hello again.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)
Re: Me Too, but not quite. - [info]chakaal, 2004-09-09 12:44 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]ailsaek
2004-09-09 11:22 am UTC (link)
I think the big difference between your approachability (in my head, anyway) and, say, Ellen Kushner's, is that you're "Jo, whom I know from RASFF, who also writes books" while they're "Ellen (or whoever) the author whom I have met at Readercon." Which isn't to say that you're not a Real Author, of course, just that the order of events makes a difference. There's still a bit of the bookish kid, to whom all authors were at the very least demideities, living in the back of my head.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

[info]papersky
2004-09-09 11:27 am UTC (link)
Well, for me too.

I blush and stammer when I'm introduced to George R.R. Martin or Samuel Delany. That's OK. Robert Silverberg -- a demideity if anyone is -- stammers when William Tenn compliments his writing.

I'm not saying people should be all over writers they don't know. I'm just saying people who read this journal and post to it are more than entitled to say hello, and I'm weirded out that they don't think so.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

[info]veejane
2004-09-09 11:22 am UTC (link)
FWIW, my experience of Worldcon -- all cons, but it seemed more concentrated -- is a shrinkage of the space between reader and writer. Firstly, because I met a lot of writers, and even more aspiring writers, and none of them were unfriendly.

Secondly, because I still battle the powerful impression of my childhood that all authors are dead. So, meeting a writer, finding that writer has ideas and opinions and bunions and unruly children and all -- knowing experientially that writers are real, living, incomplete people -- is an exciting relief. It's far harder to have a conversation with a dead writer, because she can't suddenly discover Farscape (etc.) and neep with you about it.

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[info]papersky
2004-09-09 11:30 am UTC (link)
You wouldn't believe the letters I used to write Cicero.

But I think people write in some ways in dialogue with other things being written, and it's a very important thing for writers to be in communication with other writers.

It makes you feel less isolated if nothing else, look, other people do this weird thing too!

(Reply to this)(Parent)

[info]kate_nepveu
2004-09-09 12:35 pm UTC (link)
That shrinkage has also been my experience of cons, and just fandom in general. It is very cool, except in the extremely rare occasion when someone is a jerk.

I do try to be aware, though, that people often have lots of demands on their time at cons. So, as much as I would have liked to stop Terry Pratchett in the hall and say, "Hey, I really like your books, and have since you did a signing in the next town over to which a whole twenty people came in the mid-1990s," well, it didn't seem courteous.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)
(no subject) - [info]veejane, 2004-09-09 12:48 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]cofax7, 2004-09-09 05:35 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]bohemiancoast, 2004-09-09 01:38 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]papersky, 2004-09-09 02:11 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kate_nepveu, 2004-09-09 05:34 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]papersky, 2004-09-10 04:14 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]mrissa, 2004-09-10 05:52 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jinian, 2004-09-10 08:57 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kate_nepveu, 2004-09-10 06:46 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nancylebov, 2004-09-12 06:20 am UTC (Expand)
Tooth & Claw & Introductions
[info]porphyrin
2004-09-09 11:30 am UTC (link)
*sigh*

Oh, what a wonderful book.

And Jo, I think I did meet you while standing in front of Elise's table, ogling her... wares. Um, so to speak. I think we had a conversation that went like this:

"You know she's deaf, right?" (when I was trying to get Elise's attention)
"Yeah, uh, it's not that important, and I'll grab her later. After she's made some money."

I'd read your badge-- I wasn't ogling your wares, honest! But to meet you blew any reasonable conversational gambits out of my head, and I'm afraid I turned into Introvert Fan-Girl.

Apologies!

(Reply to this)(Thread)
Re: Tooth & Claw & Introductions
[info]papersky
2004-09-09 11:33 am UTC (link)
I remember you perfectly, and I'd have been happy to chat with you.

Oh well.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)
Re: Tooth & Claw & Introductions - [info]porphyrin, 2004-09-09 11:50 am UTC (Expand)

[info]stakebait
2004-09-09 11:54 am UTC (link)
Approaching pros is awkward for me because I need to feel I have something to offer or I've become one of the pushy ones. With another fan, we're on more or less equal footing -- we've both got conversation to offer, and that's about it.

But when y'all are bringing whole BOOKS to the table and I've got, um, still just the conversation, it feels presumptuous. I can compliment books and ask for autographs okay, because I've grasped that that's gratifying to a writer or editor, but I still have trouble with the segue to general conversation.

I didn't really meet any pros until I started Buffycon, because then I did have something to offer, if only a spot on program. Of course by now I don't again, but the ice is already broken with those few, and the practice at talking to them has given me more courage with the rest.

I actually spent more time with various pros at this con than I ever have before, so obviously I'm getting over it. It does, however, manifest in a willingness to fetch bandaids or coffee, loan books, buy beer, and generally attempt to pay for my presence by making myself useful.

I also think being an aspiring author makes it worse. I don't have the same level of self-consciousness with pro artists, because I'm not afraid they're going to think I'm trying to suck up or present myself with an equality I haven't earned.

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[info]littlebutfierce
2004-09-09 06:49 pm UTC (link)
Approaching pros is awkward for me because I need to feel I have something to offer or I've become one of the pushy ones. With another fan, we're on more or less equal footing -- we've both got conversation to offer, and that's about it.

exactly! i don't want to inadvertently end up being an embarrassing anecdote a pro tells to others for years.

also, jo, i'm a new reader of your lj--i went to the fantasy of manners panel, & for the rest of the con i scoured the dealer's room for tooth & claw, & was v. miffed that i couldn't find it. now i see that it's just in that nasty limbo between hardback & paperback, & now that i have it on hold at the library, i'm much happier!

(Reply to this)(Parent)

[info]trinker
2004-09-09 12:20 pm UTC (link)
I...I've never felt the gap between fan and pro so keenly as I did at Noreascon this past weekend. I accompanied a friend into a pro party, and I got what I call "namechecked". Basically felt a "who are you and should I know you and what can you do for me", and then filed into the "just a reader" bin, and the "please go away, I must meet people who can do good things for me" thing.

Not that you did this. But it made me shy for the rest of the weekend except with people I'd already known before. Except for the guy who came up to sit with me at the hotel bar. Which was unexpected, and charming.

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[info]veejane
2004-09-09 12:58 pm UTC (link)
That sounds crappy. I'm sorry it happened to you, and FWIW didn't have anything like it happen to me -- bad luck of the draw, perhaps?

I didn't tend to have any idea whether the person I was talking to was a pro or not, especially at things like parties. In practice this means I prattled on about the most inane topics, which tended to mean that few conversation were of Earth Shattering Importance, but I think my ignorance vastly decreased my nervousness.

Ignorance is good that way.

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(no subject) - [info]trinker, 2004-09-09 01:02 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]dichroic
2004-09-09 12:41 pm UTC (link)
I wonder: is the shyness in approaching Big Name Authors different for those who are aspiring writers (I mean, writers aspiring to be published or be published more) vs those of us who are "just" readers? If so, why?

I'm assuming all SF writers are also readers and so also have that illusory feeling that you know the author and s/he knows you, after reading a particularly wonderful book. But is it easier for writers because you're different degrees but int he same lodge, or harder because they're where you want to be? Or both? Or neither?

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[info]fairmer
2004-09-09 02:22 pm UTC (link)
I think, honestly, if I weren't trying to break into the professional ranks of writing, I'd be more inclined to chat up pro writers. The last thing I want to do is make someone think I'm talking to them in order to advance my career. I want them to think I'm talking to them because I love their work! I've just never wanted to be a mushroom, in the 19th c. sense of the word.

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(no subject) - [info]fairmer, 2004-09-09 02:23 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]mrissa, 2004-09-09 02:32 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]papersky, 2004-09-10 04:20 am UTC (Expand)

[info]joyeuse13
2004-09-09 01:04 pm UTC (link)
I actually have nothing valuable to contribute to this conversation, but felt compelled to make a pun about pros and cons. ;-)

(Reply to this)

[info]haikujaguar
2004-09-09 01:50 pm UTC (link)
Alas, I approached you and then spilled water on you. You were very good-natured about it! Oif. :)

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)
(no subject) - [info]papersky, 2004-09-09 02:14 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]haikujaguar, 2004-09-09 02:19 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]papersky, 2004-09-09 03:19 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]beamjockey, 2004-09-14 05:17 am UTC (Expand)

[info]rushthatspeaks
2004-09-09 03:05 pm UTC (link)
I found people infinitely more approachable at this con then at any anime con I have gone to, where the pros quite literally have bodyguards, besides there being a language barrier, and where the fans tend to separate into cliques by series and genre. I enjoy anime cons, but it was so much easier to talk to people at Noreascon, and so a lot of my memories of the weekend are conversations, which I hadn't been expecting.

It is strange doing a con as an aspiring writer, though. I know what you mean about the peculiar blend of business and not business, because I was eating lunch with Greer Gilman, whom I had gotten to chatting with about Anglo-Saxon poetry, and I got to kvetching about the fact that I have a story which has been being bounced specifically for genre reasons everywhere I send it-- fantasy mags say it's SF, SF mags say it's fantasy, F&SF said it was horror-- and she gave me a market rec, whence I am sending it. And if it sells, that will I think be the oddest combination of work and play that I have ever had.

And if one is like me and in the bouncing stories all over the place stage it's this odd feeling of hoping someday to come back as a pro and fearing that nothing will ever, ever sell.

But I tell myself that I can talk to anybody, dammit, because they all went through this at some point.

Jon Singer, by the way, is omnipresent. It's the only explanation.

I should mention again, by the way, how much I enjoyed your tea party, [info]papersky. It was fun.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)
(no subject) - [info]radiotelescope, 2004-09-10 02:00 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]papersky, 2004-09-11 05:15 am UTC (Expand)

[info]snippy
2004-09-09 03:23 pm UTC (link)
Hrrm, my problem is that I don't think I'm interesting enough for anyone to want to talk to, unless they already know me. So at cons I'm very introverted, whereas at boinks I'm noisy and outgoing.

(Reply to this)

[info]cicadabug
2004-09-10 08:47 am UTC (link)
If I attend a panel and someone on it manages to either a) say helpful things, b) be entertaining, or c) be particularly erudite, I make a habit of picking up one of their books in the dealers room -- sort of my way of indirectly paying back people for providing me with something. So yes, being on a panel does give you a chance to get "in front" of readers.

But also as a mostly-fan not-pro-yet-but-trying, when I see someone on a zillion panels looking sorta shell-shocked, I always find myself hoping they catch a break and get to enjoy the con with the rest of us. (-:

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