Rogue Irish Cheesemaker ([info]thebratqueen) wrote,
@ 2004-02-19 20:09:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Current mood: cranky
Entry tags:gay rights, meta, rants

Slash and gay rights
So, like, I watch sports and stuff? And I really love watching football and I spend all my time talking about football and enjoying football games on TV and playing football games on my Playstation because, like, football gets me hot. But, like, if you actually play football? Dude, that's, like, sick and wrong and I think there should be laws that say nobody should ever actually play football 'cause people who would actually, like, do that thing of wearing pads and helmets and chasing a ball around a field goes against everything law and humanity stands for. I mean dude, what's wrong with you?



Look, let's get one thing clear: TBQ's law of slash applies to both sides of the fence. You don't have to flash your queer cred in order to say you don't like slash. Neither do you have to flash your queer cred in order to like it. Slash, in and of itself, isn't a political movement, it's not an effort to make a statement or try to subvert the status quo of anything. It's fanfic. About characters we want to see together, very often in some form of undress. It's not the cure for cancer and it's never gonna be. Also? Anybody who thinks I'm movitated to write slash based on reasons beyond "Wes and Angel together are teh HAWT" clearly doesn't know me that well, or read my stuff. (Both of which are fine states, for the record.)

However - the question has arisen of whether or not being a slash fan yet being firmly against the rights of gays to marry makes one a hypocrite. Allow me to offer an answer to this question: I don't know if it makes you a hypocrite, but it sure as hell makes you an asshole. You know why? Because telling gay people that they're less than human is a shitty thing to do.

Look, I'm there for you guys. I try to be there for you guys. I'm down with the religious reasons and the ignorance (NOTE: religious reasons and ignorance are not the same thing nor am I suggesting they are) and the geniune worry over What! About! The children! but when it all boils down what you're saying is that I'm not a human being and you are and you know what? For some odd reason I don't take that as a compliment.

Now the slash thing makes it all kinds of interesting. Because yeah, slash isn't necessarily about politics. Slash can just be about two guys getting it on because that makes your panties wet. Go for it! Have at! I'm right there with you! I mean heck, as others have said it's just like those great little psuedo-porn films on Skinemax which, when you get right down to it, should be called "Two women with really bad boob jobs pretend to eat each other out because that kind of thing gets some members of our audience really hot inside of their 501s." Nothing wrong with that if you ask me! Hell, obviously I've watched some myself! I wish the boob jobs would be less obvious!

And sure, your stereotypical guy watching The Bare Wench Project IV is probably not watching said cinematic masterpiece because deep down he cares about whether or not two women who have sex with each other in the real world would actually have the rights to adopt and raise a child together without both of them having to deny everything about themselves in order to be considered worthy to raise a child that nobody else wanted in the first place. No more than you might read about Lex and Clark going at it in a hidden corner of the barn and give a rat's ass if an actual real life Clark would be given the legal right to visit Lex in the hospital if he was dying from one of the five billion car crashes and accidents he gets into on an average day in Smallville. And you don't have to. I promise, wearing a rainbow pin and marching in gay pride is not a requirement for enjoying the watching of gay sex.

But not supporting gay rights while still gaining some form of amusement from any form of homosexuality still makes you an asshole.

Slash fan who doesn't support civil rights for queers? Asshole. Frat boys who love watching the Bare Wenches get it on but who would spit at an actual dyke if they met her on campus? Asshole. Random TV viewer who thinks the Fab Five are a 'hoot' but would still vote to support a constitutional amendment to make sure that Ted and his boyfriend of many years could never get married? Asshole.

'cause here's the thing: You don't get to make homosexuality dance for your amusement and then say "Oh by the way I still think you're sub-human. But ta for the laughs and the orgasms!"

Christ, how rude is that? And somebody actually had to explain how rude is that? And other people still didn't get it? Did I wake up and it was opposite day or something? Newsflash: you don't get to like us as entertainment then vomit all over us in reality. Or at least you shouldn't. Not if you had a shred of decency in you.

"But wait!" the argument goes, as I've seen it played out in a few LJs now, "What about bestiality? What about pedophilia? What about murder and torture and incest and more? If you want slash fans to support gay rights, shouldn't you want those who read rapefic to support rapists?"

And hey - I am down with debate and argument. So I'm more than happy to take the time to give you my reply:

What the Hell is wrong with you?

Seriously. No, seriously. This is your "A" game? "I don't see the difference between homosexuality and beastiality" is your A game? What, were the better debators on your team sick today? And you actually want an answer to that?

You want an answer? Fine. Come close and listen up because I'm not going to repeat myself. And lemme tell you I'm giving this one to everybody who EVER trots out that pedophilia/bestiality/rape/whatever/oh my argument in response to the gay rights issue because I am sick and tired of dealing with this every. single. time. This is your answer, you get it once, and then I never wanna hear it again:

TAKE YOUR ASS BACK TO KINDERGARTEN, RETAKE REMEDIAL "ONE OF THESE THINGS IS NOT LIKE THE FUCKING OTHERS" AND DON'T COME BACK UNTIL YOU KNOW HOW TO ARGUE LOGIC LIKE A GOD-DAMNED GROWNUP, GOT IT?

Jesus Christ people! I am so over this it's not even funny. You know why? Because every time it comes up somebody on my side has to trot themselves out and go "Oh no, gay rights isn't like rape/murder/pedophilia because of consent and laws and love and blah and blah and BLAH" and I am so GOD DAMNED TIRED OF IT. If you, sunshine, can't tell the difference between faggots and dog-fucking then get your ass OFF the debate floor and let the big boys play. 'cause I ain't here to coddle you.

You don't like queers? Fine. Think we're going to Hell? Super! Find gay sex to be teh HAWT but think actual fags aren't human beings and will do what you can to make sure we live our lives as second-class citizens? Bite me. Bite me hard. That's a shitty attitude to have and believe you me I'm never going to respect you for it.

But hey, apparently you can't see the difference between me and a Cocker Spaniel, so I guess it's not really breaking your heart that we're not BFF. Oh well.

Yours etc,
TBitchQ



Page 1 of 12
<<[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11]
[12]
>>

(Post a new comment)


[info]otakuraven
2004-02-20 01:11 am UTC (link)
I. Love. You.

<3

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:13 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]otakuraven, 2004-02-20 01:15 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:16 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]diapholom, 2004-03-05 09:11 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]gramina
2004-02-20 01:15 am UTC (link)
My *God* you're good!

May I link to this?

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:17 am UTC (Expand)

[info]gchick
2004-02-20 01:15 am UTC (link)
DAMN you give good rant. The very best.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:17 am UTC (Expand)

[info]saraslash
2004-02-20 01:16 am UTC (link)
WORD.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:18 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]saraslash, 2004-02-20 01:19 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]versailles_rose, 2004-02-20 01:44 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]saraslash, 2004-02-20 01:53 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]dragovianknight, 2004-02-20 02:38 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]saraslash, 2004-02-20 02:57 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]iliadawry, 2004-02-20 08:08 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]pbristow, 2004-02-21 12:19 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]saraslash, 2004-02-21 02:59 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]the_red_shoes
2004-02-20 01:18 am UTC (link)
You. Rule.

I'd take you off to San Francisco and marry you except 1) I'd have to stand in line and 2) my spousal overunit might get kinda upset.

moi

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]the_red_shoes, 2004-02-20 01:19 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:21 am UTC (Expand)

[info]voleuse
2004-02-20 01:19 am UTC (link)
I adore you, and I adore your rants, and this one is getting top billing in my next post.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:21 am UTC (Expand)

[info]cerisaye
2004-02-20 01:21 am UTC (link)
Great post. This had passed me by until I read it. I find it incredible how any rational person could read and enjoy slash with a mindset that views gay people as anything other than...well..people, with the same rights as anyone else. There's nowt as queer as folk.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:23 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]boniblithe, 2004-02-20 01:49 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 02:50 am UTC (Expand)

[info]casapazzo
2004-02-20 01:22 am UTC (link)
::applauds wildly::

Wow, that tempest moved quickly - I was actually surprised to see you addressing b/c it started over in HP fandom - I didn't realize how far it had traveled. There's the internet for ya.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:24 am UTC (Expand)

[info]janedavitt
2004-02-20 01:23 am UTC (link)
I've seen the fringes of this, well, won't dignify it by calling it a debate, and been baffled and vaguely nauseated by that attitude. Thanks for expressing what I was feeling in such pithy, cogent prose.

::calming hugs::

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:25 am UTC (Expand)

[info]lasultrix
2004-02-20 01:24 am UTC (link)
Adjudicators? Ten out of ten for this debater, please.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:25 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]lasultrix, 2004-02-20 01:31 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:38 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]raaven, 2004-02-21 08:54 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]deaver
2004-02-20 01:29 am UTC (link)
You are quite possibly the most brilliant person on the planet! Seriously. Love this perfect, eloquent rant. Can't even put into clear sentences how much I appreciate your wonderfulness. So, um, Thanks. :)

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:40 am UTC (Expand)

[info]lysana
2004-02-20 01:29 am UTC (link)
*wild applause*

I found this via [info]gramina's LJ, and I figured you haven't gotten nearly enough praise for this one yet.

One bit in particular:

'cause here's the thing: You don't get to make homosexuality dance for your amusement and then say "Oh by the way I still think you're sub-human. But ta for the laughs and the orgasms!"

Cracked. My. Shit. Up.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:41 am UTC (Expand)

[info]treebee
2004-02-20 01:31 am UTC (link)
Glad to see I'm not the only one in uber-bitch mood today. ;)

I love your brain. Can I borrow it next time I have to articulate why the pro-slash/anti-gay attitude is one I will never understand?

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:41 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]treebee, 2004-02-20 04:43 am UTC (Expand)

[info]gairid
2004-02-20 01:35 am UTC (link)
*SNogs* God, that was great.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:41 am UTC (Expand)

[info]kita0610
2004-02-20 01:35 am UTC (link)
Kiss.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:37 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]kita0610, 2004-02-20 05:17 am UTC (Expand)

[info]lucifrix
2004-02-20 01:38 am UTC (link)
*stands up and cheers*

I didn't know there WERE people like that. But when it turns out they're in HP fandom, I'm not that surprised either, as I've heard they're quite the crazy.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:42 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]boniblithe, 2004-02-20 01:53 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]lucifrix, 2004-02-20 02:13 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]boniblithe, 2004-02-20 02:18 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]armoire_man, 2004-02-20 05:40 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]lucifrix, 2004-02-20 07:48 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]lady81bird, 2004-02-20 07:02 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]lucifrix, 2004-02-20 07:52 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]mpoetess
2004-02-20 01:38 am UTC (link)
Thank you. Exactly what I was feeling, and was frankly too wimpy to say because I couldn't really come up with a response to the "What gets me hot is not necessarily what I support in real life" argument. Because how many times have we used that to defend [insert hot-topic kink here] in fanfic, vs. in RL, free speech, yadda yadda.

But the difference between not supporting "dangerous or abusive sex acts" even if they fictionally get you hot and not supporting "being gay" even if it fictionally gets you hot, should be clear to anyone with two brain cells to rub together.

I'm waiting, of course, for the "slash writers are exploiting Real Gay Men" people to crawl out of the closet woodwork on this one, to say that they told us so. But there's a big difference between enjoying gay porn/fiction without feeling that the *stories* have to reflect real gay people as opposed to fictional characters, and enjoying it while actively disapproving of the reality. The second is exploitation.

[edited 10 zillion times]

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 01:44 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]mpoetess, 2004-02-20 01:50 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]mpoetess, 2004-02-20 01:51 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]boniblithe, 2004-02-20 01:57 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 02:54 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]stakebait, 2004-02-20 04:29 pm UTC (Expand)
Very good points, Mer - [info]scrollgirl, 2004-02-20 05:23 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Very good points, Mer - [info]gramina, 2004-02-20 05:42 pm UTC (Expand)
Hey, thanks! - [info]scrollgirl, 2004-02-20 06:00 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Hey, thanks! - [info]archangelbeth, 2004-02-22 04:50 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Hey, thanks! - [info]gramina, 2004-02-25 06:01 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Very good points, Mer - [info]stakebait, 2004-02-21 04:38 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]leora, 2004-02-21 06:15 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]stakebait, 2004-02-21 06:44 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]leora, 2004-02-22 07:40 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]stakebait, 2004-02-22 07:52 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]kylandra, 2004-02-22 05:55 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]stakebait, 2004-02-22 07:04 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]sangpassionne
2004-02-20 01:42 am UTC (link)
People are strange and odd and a goodly number of them should have been drowned at birth. JMHO. Word and ::hugs::

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 02:55 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]sangpassionne, 2004-02-20 05:40 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]tsiankiio
2004-02-20 01:46 am UTC (link)
Word. I would so propose, but wedding planning makes me want to drop a handful of nukes on the world and that's bad for the trees.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 02:56 am UTC (Expand)

[info]valarltd
2004-02-20 01:46 am UTC (link)
MWAH!

Because I love how you rant.
Because we have 110% compatibility (according to that silly chart) and I want to time-share your brain.

The mindset of homophobes who like slash is like that of racists who only like Porn-of-Color. It amuses them to see these lesser beings behaving in animalistic fashions for their lordly amusement. I know. I lived with one of the former group for 18 years. (Mum will just never get it)


I had to smack a pedophiliacc bestialist arguer the other day. It's so unfair to use logic on those types. Children are not of legal age to sign binding contracts. Animals are physically incapable of signing the contract. Ergo, you can't marry either one.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 03:01 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]kita0610, 2004-02-20 06:34 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]kita0610, 2004-02-20 06:33 am UTC (Expand)

[info]lunaris1013
2004-02-20 01:48 am UTC (link)
Wow. Just.... wow. You give such good rant, girl.

Now I must go linky linky so others may find this!

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]telesilla, 2004-02-20 02:11 am UTC (Expand)
Re: - [info]lunaris1013, 2004-02-20 02:28 am UTC (Expand)

[info]monanotlisa
2004-02-20 01:49 am UTC (link)
Nice Impressive continuation of the debate mentioned in [info]bookshop's post-- you really focus on the core issue here. Cheers.

(Reply to this)


[info]raincitygirl
2004-02-20 01:50 am UTC (link)
This is beautiful. I'm framing it.

One tiny quibble, however. It's bestiality, not beastiality. Only one 'A'. I know, I know, it's counter-intuitive, but that's the correct spelling of the word.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 03:03 am UTC (Expand)

[info]coyotegoth
2004-02-20 01:50 am UTC (link)
I couldn't agree more- that's why I'm flying out West to marry people (to each other, not to me).

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 03:05 am UTC (Expand)

[info]lumenara
2004-02-20 01:51 am UTC (link)
Wow. This is actually the first I've seen of this "debate," which is good, because now I can just point this way instead of stuttering in fury.

And while "asshole" is certainly an appropriate word choice, I don't really think "hypocrite" would be too strong either. If it's not something you wanna do yourself, that is of course fine and perfectly acceptable, but it gives you no right to prevent other people from doing so. When you actually find other people's doing it *hot*, then it's just crap icing on the hypocritical cake.

My mother always says, "Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."

Thanks for expressing this clearly and somehow managing to be funny about it at the same time.

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: - [info]thebratqueen, 2004-02-20 03:06 am UTC (Expand)

Page 1 of 12
<<[1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11]
[12]
>>