22 June 2003 @ 04:10 pm
Getting Real...  
Hmmm, this turned out longer than I expected, so I guess I'll hide it behind a cut tag. Just some things that have been rolling about in my head for some time about "reality" and RPS.



I've come to the conclusion that I must be rather odd. If you visit this LJ with any regularity, you may have reached that conclusion some time ago. My epiphany was brought on by conversations I had at a conference I attended in March and some LJ posts and comments I've been reading about squeamishness and RPS. What I'm hearing are a lot folks from different fandoms expressing some level of discomfort with what they are writing and posting or what is being written and posted.

However, it doesn't bother me in the slightest that I write RPS. I don't feel guilt or angst. No embarrassment or shame. It doesn't, for the most part, present me with serious ethical issues.

The primary reason is that I'm not writing about real people. Well, not really. As [info]cathexys and [info]ithiliana were pointing out, the "real" in RPS is rather slippery to define, as is the border between the real and the fictional. When writing RPS, I'm using the names of people who actually exist. I'm also borrowing their husks, simulacra that look like them. However, I don't believe for a second that the personality I'm pouring into that shell is real or even simulates the real. So my RPS characters are fictional at the core with a candy coating of "real" over them. Then they are dropped down into the fiction of the story itself. That's a mighty thin layer of "real" sandwiched between two huge slices of fiction. Because there is so little that is "real" about RPS, I have no qualms about writing it.

In fact, I'm not even convinced that there is much of a divide between FPS and RPS when you look at it like this. If I'm writing Aragorn/Boromir, and my Boromir is blonde haired and green eyed, then I'm not really writing Tolkien's character (who was, like all Numenoreans, dark haired and grey eyed). I'm writing a "Beanomir." Again, a "real" person gloss over a fictional character in a fictional world. It's all part of the same pie, no matter how you slice it.

The question of what is real becomes even murkier when thinking about how the "real" characters in RPS are constructed. When I write, I do read interviews and watch special feature appearances; however, I don't for a second believe that the actor's public person is the same as his real personality. In addition to the slivers I glean from the press, I also allow something of the character the actor is playing to creep into my construction of him. If my Bean is commanding and dominant, then there's a good chance some of that is coming from Boromir.

Now, if I've already used some of the fictional film role to create the "real" persona for RPS, what about when I have the world of the fiction bubbling through the "real" world of the story. When Sean Bean is wondering whether what he feels for Viggo is genuine or simply a byproduct of the interaction the characters have in the film (the classic "like lovers" prompt to the actors), fiction and that specter of reality I've conjured are hopelessly entangled. There is no sorting them out.

I'm also struck by an odd but fascinating ambivalence toward the "real" that I've read about/discussed. Stories shouldn't seem "too real," I've heard, as if they have the power of encroaching on the "reality" of the actors as people the more plausible they seem. That the stories have the means of somehow tainting the actors they are being written about but also other roles those actors play in films (Anyone who can untangle that ungainly mess of fiction and reality gets a shiny gold star.). Does life imitate art? If I manipulate a photo of Sean so that he has emerald-green hair, does that mean that he's likely to run off and have it dyed? I am not Voodoo Queen Barb who is able to reshape reality with my stories. And if I am, then I'm pretty damn pissed that no one ever told me about it before now, because I've been quandering my powers and missing out on a helluva lot of fun.

However, I've gotten comments about how plausible my characterization or dialogue seems and I've left some of the same. So readers want the story or character to feel "real enough" but not "too real." How real is too real?

The whole bloody mess can be compared to writing dialogue. When you're writing good dialogue, it should simulate the way people speak, but it ought not try to copy it. Because it would bring no joy to read dialogue that reproduced actual speech. It would be full of odd pauses and placeholder sounds (ummm...); it would wander off topic in strange non-linear ways; it would reference personal knowledge/experience shared by the speakers but not by others. It would fail rather spectacularly. No one would want to read it.

But give those same readers dialogue that feels real, and they're happy. That's all the "reality" necessary in RPS. It's shadow, not the thing itself. Just like goddamn reality TV. Is something "real" when it has been artfully edited and shaped to emphasize certain aspects of personality and fit some overarching theme for the show? Are the people on the shows behaving as they truly are, or are they conscious of the camera on them at all times, aware of playing to an audience. Are they real people performing a particular version of themselves for an audience.

I also wonder how or if attitude toward RPS is different in fandoms that don't have an obvious FPS/RPS divide, like boyband slash. Perhaps [info]cathexys and [info]hederahelix can comment on that, since they're more knowledgeable in that arena.

 
 
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psychic wig consultant: syren[info]gotham_syren on June 22nd, 2003 02:28 pm (UTC)
I'm also borrowing their husks, simulacra that look like them. However, I don't believe for a second that the personality I'm pouring into that shell is real or even simulates the real. So my RPS characters are fictional at the core with a candy coating of "real" over them.

Yes!!! I'm utterly, 110% in agreement with this idea. The tinfoil hat brigade notwithstanding, we already *know*, from the get-go, that our characters are simulacra, because we're ascribing behavior to them that we cannot plausibly expect them to engage in. So arguing about how "real" a character is – in the sense of "how true to life" – misses the point. If a story already presumes that Sean and Viggo engaged in a wildly passionate sexual relationship during the filming of LotR (for which there is zero evidence), then criticizing that story because the fictional Sean or fictional Viggo doesn't quite square up with our (media-filtered) understanding of either real man seems ridiculous. The public appearances of actors and celebrities, just like books or TV or movies, give us a place from which we can borrow – and adapt, and modify – characters.

Of course, as you noted, "real" is a very slippery term and it would be disingenuous to say that RPS characters aren't "real" at all, because those characters are usually constructed from bits and pieces of public reports of the person. From these glimpses an observer puts together her own idea of who the person is, what he's "really" like. I'm guessing, but I imagine that when someone compliments a story's dialogue as sounding "real," what she's saying is that 1) the prose of the dialogue sounds plausibly like an actual, human conversation (in the way that you explained), and 2) the dialogue sounds like something that she could imagine the actor/personality would say, according to the patchwork personality that she has ascribed to him on the basis of interviews and appearances.

Think I'll leave it at that before sliding down the slippery slope of existential philosophy and the problem of whether it is possible to pinpoint the locus of The Real Person. I've skimmed some of the [info]virgule conversations about this topic, but it was a little overwhelming. ;)
Barbara: Boreas[info]savageseraph on June 22nd, 2003 06:44 pm (UTC)
Think I'll leave it at that before sliding down the slippery slope of existential philosophy and the problem of whether it is possible to pinpoint the locus of The Real Person.

I stopped myself from going there too. When I evoked the boyband phenomenon as total RPS, I found myself thinking that I was stretching "real" really far.
Ithiliana: Ithiliana[info]ithiliana on June 22nd, 2003 03:09 pm (UTC)
Me too!
No surprise, since you and I have talked about this via phone, I agree! In fact, I am so 100% in agreement with you that it almost scares me--although I don't know why it should. Two great minds thinking alike?

Thus, my "Role Playing Slash" which I had typed up the other day (when I was home puppysitting; Entwife is at home puppysitting today), didn't get a chance to post, and will now post in agreement, will look like I copied you totally! You express it very well.

There's also another literary term which I think might be useful here: in creative writing of course, we talk about "verisimilitude" Yes big and fancy academic word, but it means that within the context of a FICTIONAL narrative, the writer has created the sense of A (*note A not THE) real world, one that convinces the reader that it "could" exist. I want to achieve verisimilitude in my RPS (hell in my FPS for that matter). But I NEVER confuse fiction with reality. I might prefer fiction to reality but that's another story...

And here you go again, writing THEORETICALLY informed and interesting posts (you cannot use "simulacra" without evoking theory, my dear!). At some point you must give up this denial!

And don't even get me started on reality TV......
Barbara[info]savageseraph on June 22nd, 2003 06:40 pm (UTC)
Re: Me too!
Oooo. I love the Role Playing Slash idea, the thought that RPS scripts roles for the actors to play. Hmmm, we must have been riding the same wave this weekend.

But things like this don't feel like theory to me. I've not evoked Foucault or Derrida or any of those other inpenetrable philosophical types, so it can't be "real" theory. Right? *winks*

Is it terribly postmodern of me to theorize about my theory impairment, which may, in fact, not be real but simply an imaginary construct? ^_^
weird waves - [info]ithiliana on June 23rd, 2003 04:34 pm (UTC) Expand
Karelian: arthurlancelot[info]karelian on June 22nd, 2003 03:42 pm (UTC)
For me there will always be a difference between writing fic about a character an author created and writing fic using the name of someone who could be handed a copy of that fic by a nutty fan or could stumble upon it via a web search in an archive I didn't even realize had indexed it, even if the characters are equally constructs of my imagination.
Barbara: Like Lovers[info]savageseraph on June 22nd, 2003 07:01 pm (UTC)
I see your point, but the same thing holds true in the world of FPS. How is some nutty fan handing Viggo a fic of him and Sean fucking each other into next year different from someone handing JK Rowling an NC-17 Snape/Harry rapefic or Laurell Hamilton a Jean Claude/Micah/Anita/Asher orgyfic? Rowling would not approve of Potterslash (especially of the adult variety), and Hamilton doesn’t approve of fan fiction based on her work. Both are FPS stories, but both would be seen as objectionable by the writers. Tolkien is a bit safer in that regard, since he’s dead, but I can’t imagine the good professor greeting Aragorn/Boromir porn with glee and delight.

In fact, if I had the devil’s choice of having my RPS presented to an actor or my FSP presented to the writer of the meta-text I’m working from, I think I would prefer the fic being given to the actor.
(no subject) - [info]karelian on June 22nd, 2003 07:26 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]savageseraph on June 23rd, 2003 08:06 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]karelian on June 24th, 2003 04:29 pm (UTC) Expand
Ithiliana: Ithilien[info]ithiliana on June 22nd, 2003 03:45 pm (UTC)
i LOVE hopeless entanglements
When Sean Bean is wondering whether what he feels for Viggo is genuine or simply a byproduct of the interaction the characters have in the film (the classic "like lovers" prompt to the actors), fiction and that specter of reality I've conjured are hopelessly entangled.

Wait until you see how Sean hopelessly entangles David and Viggo in a debate over the issue of "reality" vs. "image" (real sex vs. simulated sex) as he challenges for Viggo (who is photographing SeanandDavid in the nude for his private collection). hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. In fact,I think I've got to go work on that piece for a while--it's only about half done,but I had a whole nifty "conversation" spring to mind when I was waiting for Entwife at the theatre last night. Reality. Hah.
Barbara[info]savageseraph on June 22nd, 2003 07:03 pm (UTC)
Re: i LOVE hopeless entanglements
Sigh. *waits impatiently for next part of SoG in England saga*
cathexys: beach[info]cathexys on June 22nd, 2003 07:08 pm (UTC)
i need to think about all of this some more, but i wanted to weigh in on the 'too real' issue, b/c on one of my many swings back and forth in the reality in rps issue, i've felt that discomfort before...i don't think it has *anything* to do with the fear that our fiction might affect reality...at least it never did to me...rather, it is indicative of a general pretense that everything we read and write is *fictional*...when something looks real enough that it could conceivably be a magazine story rather than a fanfic, the imaginary lines are crossed...the double consciousness with which most rps'ers seem to exist has collapsed...

of course all of that is slightly ironic considering that many writers are trying very hard to be as close to real life as possible, to stay as much as possible within the canon...that's the paradox i'm still trying to understand and wrap my mind around
Barbara[info]savageseraph on June 22nd, 2003 07:56 pm (UTC)
Snipped shamelessly from [info]cathexys's response to [info]ithiliana’s post about Role Playing Slash:

i keep on coming back to one particular issue, however, that no writer so far has been able to satisfactorily solve for me...if we want to write canonical fic (i.e., not just take the names and pretty faces and run with it), then we *are* using as much of their real lives as possible...

now, it may be different in lotr, b/c you're dealing with various levels of info (i.e., popslash lacks the fictional text with possibly the concert performance getting closest?) and as far as i know there are no clear prohibitions to family etc. like y'all seem to have...but still...i'm quite a bit puzzled how you can write a rp character, realize he's completely unlike the real person, and not try to change him to fit into the canonical version (i.e., the character/person you observe in interviews)...is that a common phenomenon in lotrips???


OK, I’ve been thinking about this too, and my theory is that it is the readers, not the writers, who pass final judgment on how real a character comes across in a fic. For example, someone left me a comment about how real my Orlando Bloom and Elijah Wood seemed in a fic I wrote. Let me tell you those two characters were entirely spun from moonbeams and starlight. I don’t follow either actor closely; I just made them do what the story demanded they do.

But something must have resonated with my reader’s idea of the “real” actors, and her perception, not my execution, is what made them “real” to her. I’ve also read comments where people tell writers that their characters seem real that have left me scratching my head because they don’t feel real at all to me. This probably loops back around to [info]ithiliana’s post about verisimilitude, and that verisimilitude is sparked by different things for different readers.

To be honest, I care less about capturing the “real” Viggo than I do creating one that seems real to my readers. Now in order to do that, I do reference things that I know about his life or have extrapolated about his personality based on interviews and such. Perhaps we should ask how real canon is when it’s a blend of real (biographical fact) and fiction (ideas of what the actor is really like).
(no subject) - [info]cathexys on June 22nd, 2003 08:28 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]savageseraph on June 23rd, 2003 06:34 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]cathexys on June 23rd, 2003 06:51 pm (UTC) Expand
psychic wig consultant: syren[info]gotham_syren on June 22nd, 2003 08:28 pm (UTC)
It is a paradox, and sometimes all the disclaimers in the world that "herein lies fiction" won't wash away the suspicion that the author doth protest too much...

I've not quite gotten my head around it, either - where that lines falls, in my own head, and how it affects my reading of a story. Barb made the point that it's all about how true the RP rings to the reader, which sounds right to me. Maybe the answer is that sometimes canon matters to me, and sometimes not, for either RPS or FPS. In other words it's not a static line at all, but a boundary that shifts and moves.
(no subject) - [info]cathexys on June 22nd, 2003 08:47 pm (UTC) Expand
canon is more complicated and multiple? - [info]ithiliana on June 23rd, 2003 04:42 pm (UTC) Expand
lotrips vs bbs? - [info]cathexys on June 23rd, 2003 06:13 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: lotrips vs bbs? - [info]savageseraph on June 23rd, 2003 06:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: lotrips vs bbs? - [info]cathexys on June 23rd, 2003 07:08 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: lotrips vs bbs? - [info]marythefan on June 30th, 2003 10:59 am (UTC) Expand
Re: lotrips vs bbs? - [info]cathexys on June 30th, 2003 11:17 am (UTC) Expand
Re: lotrips vs bbs? - [info]marythefan on June 30th, 2003 03:18 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: lotrips vs bbs? - [info]savageseraph on June 30th, 2003 08:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: lotrips vs bbs? - [info]marythefan on June 30th, 2003 03:21 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: lotrips vs bbs? - [info]cathexys on July 1st, 2003 07:47 am (UTC) Expand
Re: lotrips vs bbs? - [info]ithiliana on June 25th, 2003 03:08 pm (UTC) Expand
different forms of fan? - [info]cathexys on June 23rd, 2003 06:20 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: different forms of fan? - [info]savageseraph on June 23rd, 2003 07:03 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: different forms of fan? - [info]cathexys on June 23rd, 2003 07:37 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: different forms of fan? (Pt. 1) - [info]caras_galadhon on June 28th, 2003 12:49 am (UTC) Expand
Side note. - [info]caras_galadhon on June 28th, 2003 01:07 am (UTC) Expand
Re: different forms of fan? (Pt. 1) - [info]ithiliana on June 29th, 2003 09:48 am (UTC) Expand
Re: different forms of fan? (Pt. 1) - [info]cathexys on June 29th, 2003 10:07 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: different forms of fan? (Pt. 2) - [info]caras_galadhon on June 28th, 2003 12:51 am (UTC) Expand
Re: different forms of fan? (Pt. 2) - [info]cathexys on June 29th, 2003 10:04 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: different forms of fan? - [info]ithiliana on June 25th, 2003 03:17 pm (UTC) Expand
A Thug Who Can Bend Bullets: harrykarl[info]azewewish on June 22nd, 2003 10:55 pm (UTC)
Em, not going to debate on "too real", but I *do* expect for my RPS fic to have men that act like men, not 12-year-old girls.

Nothing in RPS is canon, but we can all at least agree that they're men.
Barbara: Hope[info]savageseraph on June 23rd, 2003 08:22 pm (UTC)
Well, amen and hallelujiah!

Nothing grates on me more than the dreaded guys acting like teeny chicks. I think that's the thing that sticks in my throat and makes me want to gag in really schmoopy stuff. Hell, I've read fics where 40-year old men were acting in ways I found appalling in my female peers when I was in my late teens. *shudder*
at least you can grow out of it... - [info]ithiliana on June 25th, 2003 03:19 pm (UTC) Expand
Sister Sabre of Enlightenment[info]hederahelix on June 23rd, 2003 08:07 am (UTC)
is the truth even out there in fiction? (part 1)
A little backstory. Popslash is really the second RPS fandom I've followed closely. For four years now, I've been following Metallica RPS.

It became crystal clear to me pretty early in that the appeal of Metallica slash for me was not about how close the characters in the fic were to the "real people" that were Metallica. Part of the appeal of the group for me was always not only just their music, which I'd always liked, but the fact that they didn't have a reputation for being utter pigs when it came to how they treated women. Unlike other hard rock groups, Met never had legendary stories about the stuff they did with groupies under the stage, nor did they put then girlfriends in videos and then rue the day later. They weren't into showing off T & A in their shows, and I appreciated that. However, that's not to say they were bastions of progressive thought towards women either. The pleasure of me for Met slash was that I could see the guys rewritten into believable characters that were less problematic for me in terms of their politics.

And I think that's the thing about RPS and reality vs. fiction. I've met only a handful of crazy fans who believe that they are crafting characters who are a true to life portrayal of the real person about whom they are writing. I've heard plenty of people who are freaked out by RPS make they argument that it encourages those fringe nutters, and as a result, should be banned because it's too risky. But I don't know anyone in fandom who doesn't know a few nutters like that in FPS, or even in just gen fan fic. I don't see why a whole genre of fan fic should be banned because of a couple of loons, because if that were the case, none of us would be writing fan fic at all because no fandom would be immune.

But I digress.

My point is that part of the appeal of RPS, to me, is that in it we can recreate characters to the image we want them to be, and I've seen as much of that in RPS as I have in character slash, in some ways. I mean, what are AUs with the dark side of a character if not a rewriting of a character the way you prefer the character to be? Sure, when you go with Dark Willow, there is some canonical basis for her, but not that much. At least until the later seasons, but not when Dark Vampire Willow fic first began popping up there wasn't.
Ithiliana: Ithiliana[info]ithiliana on June 23rd, 2003 04:50 pm (UTC)
Re: is the truth even out there in fiction? (part 1)
Great to see you again--I'd been wondering the last day or two what had happened to you (you may have posted in lj and I just missed it)! Excellent post though I'm only going to reply to a bit here:

My point is that part of the appeal of RPS, to me, is that in it we can recreate characters to the image we want them to be, and I've seen as much of that in RPS as I have in character slash, in some ways

Yep! I'm writing "men I'd like" though I don't know if they'd fit some people's definition of "men" (they keep TALKING for example)--with characters based on actors whose performances and public personas I find totally hot. And since in "real life" I gave up on men as any kind of romantic/sexual partners in 1983, I'm pretty darn sure that my fics are well into fantasy range. But I feel a bit differently about the FPS I do, with TOlkien's characters, just haven't worked out the difference yet. May know more after I finish my next AU (which I plan to write while on vacation at my mother's in Washington state enjoying COOLER weather and the ocean).
cathexys: mouse[info]cathexys on June 23rd, 2003 05:35 pm (UTC)
Re: is the truth even out there in fiction? (part 1)
but is the choice really between "crafting characters who are a true to life portrayal of the real person about whom they are writing" and a character being "NOTHING LIKE" the persona glimpsed in the interview? [first quote from your comment, second from ithiliana in her lj] ... you call people "crazy fans" if they try to portray someone true to life...and i totally agree if that person thinks they have the 'real' person...but i think there's wide spectrum between thinking you're telling the true hollywood story and consciously writing against footage...
Sister Sabre of Enlightenment[info]hederahelix on June 23rd, 2003 08:10 am (UTC)
truth out there (part 2)
I've seen plenty of fics, my own included, where characters are rewritten the way the author wants to see them. I think that's part of the thing going on behind the thread at my livejournal about what vocab words a reader will buy a particular guy using. It's not, for me, strictly about what Lance Bass, real person, would say so much as it's about what my readers will buy as being plausible that the character in that fic would say. [info]wearemany said in an online interview that future fics are our way of putting in our bets about how things will turn out with the guys in the future, and I think that's sort of relevant here.

When we get a version of the character Chris Kirkpatrick, or James Hetfield, or Viggo Mortensen in a fic, what makes me keep reading or put the fic down is how believable I find the fic--like [info]savageseraph said. I suppose there are people out there who have particular beliefs about what Justin Timberlake is like, or what Orlando Bloom is really like, but I actually prefer not to know too much about the off camera performances of the people I'm writing about because that's where I draw my own personal line of not infringing on someone's privacy. I know a few people who write in RPS who've said that if they ever met the people about whom they were writing in RL, they'd stop writing slash, and I think that would be the case with me. I ever end up sitting next to one of the people on a flight somewhere and we chat, I'd probably hang up my keyboard in that fandom because it wouldn't be fun anymore. For me, the fun is in speculating about what the person might be, and once that meaning were fixed from firsthand, not performing for the cameras/interviewers/DVD extra producers knowledge, then the fun would be gone.

As far as the obvious FPS/RPS divide in boyband stuff, I still feel a little too new to have a real grasp on that. I'm still missing a lot of the key canon texts--like I've yet to see the infamous Larry King interview where Chris says he's dating Lance. I hadn't really thought about it until I read wearemany's interview about this, but in RPS a lot of people consider all of the footage of them--whether it is an interview on TRL or the long form of Making the Tour to be canon. Fanon is another story entirely, but [info]eponymous for example, had a great primer on the canonicity of the various nicknames. I think like most other fandoms, there are some fans who follow canon devotedly and others who take it as a guideline. Just like everywhere else, there's the fuzziness of the middle ground If a fan whose judgment you trust bumps into JC in WeHo and sees him talking on his cell phone and overhears something and reports it in live journal, and that sighting isn't reported in a gossip source like the New York Post, does that count as canon? Would that constitute the divide between FPS/RPS?
cathexys: mouse[info]cathexys on June 23rd, 2003 05:43 pm (UTC)
Re: truth out there (part 2)
i think the vocab thing connects with the canon discussion we had a while back in my lj...how we as readers construct canon by picking, ignoring, and even, at times, adding... so yes, ultimately, it is our understanding of whether lance would know phalanx or not...but, of course, we'd all base it on actual info, right? on the level of diction we hear in interviews, the types of books they admit to reading or not reading (like, jc now gets an even larger vocab after the neruda reference, right :-), in general, on the entirety of the canon as we know it...
Sister Sabre of Enlightenment[info]hederahelix on June 23rd, 2003 08:11 am (UTC)
truth, such as it is (part 3)
In the thread about what words they would use, someone brought up the fact that Lance has said in some interviews that English and history kicked his ass, and yet, he's routinely written as one of the smarter ones in the group. Justin, frankly, comes across in most interviews as not esp. bright, IMO, in the classic sense, but he's also reported to be a bigger reader than Lance. Those comments got me to thinking about exactly that divide. How much of Justin looking like he's not esp. "Well educated" (whatever that's supposed to mean) is because he's performing the persona of Justin Timberlake each time he's in front of the camera. His recent appearance of SNL was to me, fascinating, for exactly that reason. One second he'd be sitting there, joshin' with Jay and throwing around street slang. But a split second later, he'd code switch back into a polite boy a little embarrassed about the whole trouser snake thing or who seemed truly appreciative to his fans, and I swore I saw shadows of a polite Southern boy who'd been raised "right" by his mamma. Given that in a segment under twenty minutes long I couldn't get a read on him, I'm not sure how much that appearance tells us about the reality of Justin at all. It seemed to me that he was performing at least two different characters, and I think I'm rambling so I'm going to go have breakfast and see if I can't sort some of this out more clearly.
cathexys: beach[info]cathexys on June 23rd, 2003 05:37 pm (UTC)
Re: truth, such as it is (part 3)
very interesting! i think that goes back to how we construct canon, what info gets privileged, etc. i've been carrying on a conversation with jae and she pointed out how canon jc, for example, looks quite different now than it did a couple of years ago...we get new info (driven, for example), but i also think fandom as a whole chooses to focus on different aspects of the entirety of the canon...

btw, love your reading of justin, the polite Southern boy :-)
Gradbot[info]weetanya on June 23rd, 2003 03:47 pm (UTC)
dude. man.
Hm.

I'd say that in RPS, we're exploiting much more gently than the press exploits the real humans behind the RPS.

We're not claiming any truth to our fiction -- in fact, the disclaimer takes care of that. The press, on the other hand, doesn't mind extracting every last secret from an individual and publishing it, whether or not the actor would approve.

We're also writing for an extremely rarified community. One or two thousand individuals on the web is not even a fraction of the public that reads People Magazine.

*

I think the usual taboos apply to writing RPS that apply to any sort of sexual writing or situation.

Some people are into feathers. Some, wings. Some, blood -- watersports -- child porn.

None of those are universal interests, and none of them should be. But the fact remains that these interests exist, and people should feel as free to write about them as about any topic.

But disclaimers are always appreciated so that people can avoid what squicks.
Ithiliana: Ithiliana[info]ithiliana on June 23rd, 2003 04:54 pm (UTC)
Re: dude. man.
EXELLENT points--I was thinking the same thing reading through the thread. When you look at the total infotainment industry out there and consider what is circulated: for example, was just reading today that a reporter on CBS news in trying to get an interview with Pvt. Lynch sent a letter mentioning the possibilities of a movie and or documentary done by the other corporate entitles of this meta entertainment conglomerate. The editorial raised the issue of whether that sort of 'inducement' was bribery, and the problematic nature of all the corporate ownership of various media companies. Horrendous stories are circulated every week in the mags that are sold at the grocery store stands and reach gazillions of people. And enough lawsuits by celebrities have been won to show that some of the press doesn't mind lying through their teeth about said celebrities.

Second on the right to write about whatever and the disclaimers: I still cannot get over people who write one kind of smut complaining about the immorality of OTHER kinds.....sheesh.
Barbara: Sons of Gondor[info]savageseraph on June 23rd, 2003 08:55 pm (UTC)
Re: dude. man.
You are so right. Tabloids and entertainment rags seems much worse to me because they are presenting their lurid stories as "real." We distance ourselves from that as much as we can with the disclaimer.
Galadriel: sharpe[info]caras_galadhon on June 28th, 2003 12:52 am (UTC)
Hey, Barb, mind if I pimp this discussion over at [info]metablog?
Barbara[info]savageseraph on June 29th, 2003 08:26 pm (UTC)
Nope. Pimp away.
(no subject) - [info]caras_galadhon on June 29th, 2003 09:55 pm (UTC) Expand