Fleur Susannah ([info]reulf) wrote,
@ 2004-04-24 12:36:00
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Current mood: lazy

A sex talk
I was thinking today how much views on sexuality change during people's teenage years. Odd, I know but that's what you get after a lack of sleep. Sorry if anyone finds this confronting.

I remember sex at the age of 12 (or under) was a thing done in the dark, carefully cheographed lighting gleaming softly on smooth, bronze skin before the camera pulls up and gives a tasteful view of a wall, or a curtain. At this age, sex turns people into immortals. Suddenly they become perfect in everyway; beauty personified. Any traces of acne, or irregular body shape covered by a haze of love. That's the other thing, at that age sex is either love or it is rape, nothing much inbetween. It is also a very hetrosexual view of sex. I knew that sex happened between two men or two women but it didn't HAPPEN.

Sex at the age of 15 or so was dominated by body image. No longer did we come beautiful at the first kiss but embarrassed that our partner was about to discover how unattractive we really are. I was horrified by the idea of a boyfriend discovering my breasts, covered with long, thin scars (they are explained in a comment) or the swelling on the tender part of my shin which still makes me whimper when it is touched. What if a boyfriend knocked my leg with his and caused me to cry out in pain? Suddenly sexual contact no longer made us immortal. Touching my stomach might betray the true nature of my body: it is not quite as smooth and slim as it appears under carefully chosen clothes. My body was one of my best features but some exploring could potentially prove it to be less then that of a movie star.

Now, at the venbrable age of 17, sex has become simpler. It is something that happens. It happens often, not always to express love but also to express friendship, to make money, for shear enjoyment of physical pleasures, for a laugh, to combat boredom, etc. It can take place between anyone. Male-female, female-female or male-male. It is no longer surrounded by an immortal glow but nor is it an agony as one imperfection is discovered after another. My body is forgiven for not being someone elses and i love the curve of my belly. There is still things we don't like, don't understand or don't expect but that is understandable. I wonder what will have changed in this theory by the time I'm 20.

Avec foi,
Fleur Susannah

QOTD: 'Il leur dit, "Pas si fort."'


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[info]calysto
2004-04-23 09:14 pm UTC (link)
You have a special and valuable gift of perspective.

Cherish it. :)

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[info]reulf
2004-04-23 09:28 pm UTC (link)
Thankyou, pet. :) So it wasn't just one of those 'too much information' entries then?

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[info]calysto
2004-04-23 09:31 pm UTC (link)
not at all.

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Definitely a gift
(Anonymous)
2004-04-24 12:40 am UTC (link)
First of all TRANSLATION: 'He said to them "Not so strong"'
I think thats it anyway! Yay Amy answers a French question at long last! Do I get a purple monkey now?!! :D *bounces happily* Anyway I agree with the other comment you have a very special gift of perspective and explanation of emotions. I feel very much the same in a lot of ways, though, as a very naive girl up until more recently I guess each of your theories applied to me probably a year or so later, and because of that, at the age of 17 and nearly 5 months;), I still believe that sex is perhaps a little bit special, and for me, expressions of extremely close friendship and/or love. But I think it still means a fair bit and I wouldn't go and throw away my virginity on the next drunken loser at a party - but thats just me. I was also gonna mention that my fears and insecurities about my body are EXACTLY like yours. It suddenly occured to me that becoming intimate with somebody exposes all of yourself...I guess more physically than mentally, but it makes you very vulnerable and I'm a very self-conscious person, particularly of my body and perhaps thats why I was always afraid to be intimate with someone. (Are the little scars stretch marks? Cos I have em too;) hehehe) Anyway I'm off to see The Girl With the Pearl Earring tonight with a friend....hope its good:) Love you all the more and adore reading about you every day...I wish I could write one of these things but I'm just not interesting enough! *Kisses and nuzzles up to Fleur*
Love Amy xxxxxx

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Re: Definitely a gift
[info]reulf
2004-04-24 01:25 am UTC (link)
Thankyou so much to putting in so much effort to your reply. It makes me feel that It has been worth sharing it for.
I was going to not post this because I thought it might be too... intimate. But I feel that sex is something that should be spoken of, otherwise it developes an aura of mystic and/or filth.

Sex for me is still special too and something to be shared only with close friends or partners. I included sex as a form of money making but that is not something I am invovled in (despite what Trevor keeps implying). I listed these as what other might use sex for.

The scars arn't stretch mark, they are from animals claws. I worked at the zoo for a fair while and it can be a bad moment when the lizzard you are holding for display purposes lashes out at the clost part of your body and leaves bloody lines across your t-shirt. :)

I know by now that it is pointless to tell a teenage girl not to fret about their body or looks but I will tell you now that you have a beautiful body. It is sleek and muscular and beautiful and I wish you could see that.

Yay for Girl With A Pearl Earring. It is a tres sexy film!
And good job on the translation.
Avec foi

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Re: Definitely a gift
[info]reulf
2004-04-24 01:40 am UTC (link)
Opps, actually the book I got this out of translates 'Il leur dit, "Pas si fort." as 'He tells them, "Not so loud." But I guess 'fort' means loud and strong and you have to know the circumstances to know which meaning is being used. :) So I will still give you the small purple monkey *presents Amy with monkey who is wearing a top hat*

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[info]basia
2004-04-24 01:47 am UTC (link)
Wow. Very interesting.
I think for me, sex is still dominated by body image. Maybe I'm moving along a different time frame to you? I think that would make sense. Sex for me has always kind of been there, but I haven't really noticed it at all.

Like last year, a friend mentioned in casual conversation that she'd slept with her boyfriend, and it kind of took my by surprise, because I hadn't really thought about them as having sex. But when I kind of took in the information, I realised that it was a natural progression for them, as they'd been going out for a long time. But before they'd mentioned it, it never had crossed my thought path.

I think that for the moment, I won't be able to see past that sort of stigmatism that is associated with sex. Unless I was in a relationship with someone I felt utterly comfortable with, and felt like I knew them so well, I think I'd be the most self-consious person ever when it comes to sex. But once I took that plunge, I'd be fine, and quite comfortable with the idea.

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[info]reulf
2004-04-24 02:25 am UTC (link)
I don't think I'm working on a different time frame to you. Up to this year sex was dominated by body image for me. It was getting close to Matthew this year that changed that for me. Not that Matthew and I are having sex or even contemplating having sex but because we are so very physical with eachother. I don't really want to go into much detail about this but sleeping in the same bed as him, hugging him, having his hands on my stomach, hips, back and sides, getting changed without inhabitions with him in the room has made me much more comfortable with my body. Like I said in the entry "My body is forgiven for not being someone elses". I think that is the big problem with body image is that we are imaganing having someone elses body instead of our own. Once we can except that I think it is much easier to come to terms with ourselves.
Avec foi

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[info]basia
2004-04-24 02:37 am UTC (link)
You're so lucky that you can share that with someone - sexual or platonic. I know that I haven't seen you and Matthew together, but from what you write, you guys have a very deep bond.
I think it will take a bit of work on my part to get past the whole body image thing. It's like I know that I shouldn't have hang ups about these sorts of things, but no matter how much I tell myself that, we're still conditioned to want a different body.

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[info]reulf
2004-04-24 06:20 am UTC (link)
(this is going to sound really pretentious, i'm sorry) We are human. We are lucky to be human. It means we have independant thought. WHat inspires independant thought is dissatisfaction. We are almost always unhappy with a part of ourselves.
There, hope that wasn't unbarably pretentious :)

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the Slightly childish view
(Anonymous)
2004-04-24 03:30 am UTC (link)
well, if this isn't a deep and meaningful! i don't know what to say about sex. i also went through the stages of sex you described, and have come to the same conclusions, but not about my self. i am ANNOYINGLY hung up on body image and can not forgive my body for not being someone elses. i commend you fleur for having that strength and power, i am a slave to society when it comes to body image and i am weak enough to let it bring me to my knees. i can't possibly describe the........feelings i have in connection to my apperance and the fear of letting others experience me. that is the reason i really can not take the plunge and let intimacy happen with another person i don't know will just love me for me, like friend would. it is increadable that i could let a friend see me in any way shape or form, but not a lover. it is because i trust my friends that they love me as i am, fat, skrauny, freackled, crazy, two pot screamer or drunken sleaze. as well as that annoying debating one :) but i can not feel that a lover, who would have to have some sort of physical attraction to me, would not judge me and find me lacking and inadequit (can't freekin spell)at the ripe old age of 16 i am still terrified of peoples judgement and being used, finding myself loving someone who does not really even like ME and will use me or find that they don't even want to touch me! aaaaaaaaaaaaaah life is hard. but there you are, my fears bared to all the internet to read!
love you you beautiful living legend Fleur
Poppy O

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Re: the Slightly childish view
[info]reulf
2004-04-24 06:35 am UTC (link)
Thanks for writing such an intimate post sweety and I've already had one person tell me that they fully related to what you are saying.
It upsets me to hear you say this because I know what a beautiful body you have. It is just that society puts pictures of too thin models all around us, of pouting lips and firm arses.
I have never spoken to anyone who finds you anything less then beautiful. Every friend of mine who meets you comes away saying 'Fuck, she's beautiful!' in awed tones. I know you are beautiful. I guess that doesn't matter tho until we can please ourselves. :(
With love from Fleur to the beautiful girl who just did a modelling stint today.
Keep shining, babe.

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[info]ice_baibei
2004-04-24 08:33 am UTC (link)
Sex... I hate how people don't often talk openly about it. It's like something that people are embarrassed about, so they keep it hidden in their closet. I'm glad you came out with this entry.
About the whole body thing- I don't think I have ever been comfortable with my body, and I doubt that I ever will be. I am overweight, I hate my evil thighs, my skin is too dry, and blah blah blah. Maybe that is why i've never gone terribly far with a guy? (shut up Fleur). Seriously though, the one person who I have let see me half naked, I was kind of with him for over a year and a half before this happened, and it was only because it was in a darkened room.
So yes. I guess body image is a huge thing for me. I agree that it is easier getting changed infront of friends (well, depending on how close), but I still wont change my pants (or skirt, whatever it is im wearing) in front of a friend- that is how self-concious I am about my legs.
So yes, I guess that is all I have to say.
By the way, I wrote the journal entry that I promised you. I hope you like it.
<3 Angie.

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[info]reulf
2004-04-25 07:15 pm UTC (link)
Yes, it is sad how protective we are of our bodies. We sert up a very distinct barrier around ourselves and seem to think that we would be ridiculed if we let it down.

I liked what you said about people talking more about sex. (You have probably heard me say this before but what the hell.) In ancient Greece sex was everywhere. Massive paintings depicting couples having sex were everywhere. It was a part of life, it was how we came into the world and so the Greeks treated it as part of life. I think that is a much better way to be. Sex didn't have to happen in dark rooms and it wasn't obsene. It's like drug use now: I believe society would be much better off if we legalised pot because then it wouldn't happen in unsafe environments and it's manufacturing could be better regulated. Sex is something that happens so we may as well get used to it.

Avec foi

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[info]ice_baibei
2004-04-26 04:12 am UTC (link)
That's right- I agree with your entry. Nothing more to write. I'm a bit bored really.
Tell Renata she's wonderful from me.

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[info]reulf
2004-04-26 11:50 pm UTC (link)
okay *beams*

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[info]underwearclaire
2004-04-25 01:16 am UTC (link)
yeah everyone's prtty much summed everything up- really really beautiful entry fleur.
i don't think it's so much body image for me... i mean sure i'm not a fan of mine, but if you're sharing something as intense as sex with another human being, the last thing you'd expect is for them to criticise you...anything about you...as it should be smoething between people who hold respect for each other.
i can't shake the awful image though of two people just having awful, mindless, emotionally (or physically) painful sex. i don't know...and guys just totally taking advantage of a woman's body... not all guys obviously, but many a hormonal, macho teenage boy.
i don't know.
sex is a lovely thing though.
*kisses fleur*

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[info]reulf
2004-04-25 07:36 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for this great comment. *beams* Everyone has written such great answers.
It would be nice if sex was always between two people who respect eachother but of course it seldom is. I remember a friend of mine who had just broken up with her bf. She told us she was going to have make-up sex with him that night but just ended up having sex without the making up. This was not taking advantage of her or his body as both wanted it but it wasn't a particularly good choice and she may have felt stupid about it afterwards- i don't know.
I would be interested to get a guy to respond to this entry because I think their teenage experience of sex is very different. There seems to be an awful lot of pressure on them to 'do stuff' with girls and they are harrassed for admitting that they havn't 'done stuff'. Even one of the most sensible, individual guys i know still says he frets alot about sex, always wondering if he is 'any good in bed' and constently needing reassurance from his partners. Teenagers are weird things.

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blabbering below
(Anonymous)
2004-04-25 08:33 pm UTC (link)
Age 13 i made a vow never to have sex until i was married, and would NEVER ..i repeat...NEVER give a guy head.

When i was 14 i gave a guy head. But no, no sex until im with someone that I loved. And when i was atleast 18.

And now i hate love. I was hurt by it. I am so much happier sleeping with someone I only see as a friend then someone who i will love one minute and the next day wont even look at me. Friends are less likely to hurt us. Oh and i might add, you forgot to mention that often sex is just as likely too occur in a public place as it does in a bedroom *wink* Oh, and losing your virginity is certainly memorable, but not for good reasons!

Im 16 and i think i fit right in there snuggly between the descriptions of 15 year olds and 17 year olds. I hate my body. I am fat and disgusting. I lose weight but i just feel like im getting bigger and bigger. But now i realise that nobody expects me to be a certain size, and size 10 isnt too big to be liked by others and if i can accept others for not being perfect then damn right they should accept me.

Also i would like to note, Of the people who have replied here that i have met, I think you all look perfect and i come here and read you guys talking about your insecurities and i feel shocked because more than likely i would love to look like you and i cant believe you guys feel insecure about the way you look! you guys all look lovely to me.

love Renata

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Re: blabbering below
[info]reulf
2004-04-25 08:58 pm UTC (link)
Thankyou sooo much for posting this darling. I am honoured.
You are right: all the people who have said here that they hate their bodies are just beautiful including you, pet.

'But now i realise that nobody expects me to be a certain size, and size 10 isnt too big to be liked by others and if i can accept others for not being perfect then damn right they should accept me."
I really liked this but I think I would change it to:

'if i can accept others for not being perfect then damn right I should accept me, too.'

We always seem to have more trouble accepting ourselves then other people.

Sex certainly can happen in public places. ;) I know a friend who fucked her bf on the steps of a Church but they were caught by the Preist. Such is life, eh?

Love Fleur Susannah

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[info]red_chirper
2005-10-05 06:39 am UTC (link)
Man, I wish sex was something that just happened to me at 17.

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[info]reulf
2005-10-05 12:15 pm UTC (link)
*pats comfortingly* It didn't happen to me at 17 either actually. It just happens to other people at 17.

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[info]cholasthehedge
2005-10-07 12:04 am UTC (link)
Thank Christ, I thought Formicas and me were the only ones in that boat.

Not in...like...a partnership between Formicas and I...if...if that's how that came across

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[info]reulf
2005-10-07 08:07 am UTC (link)
Don't worry. Straight sex is hard enough but I am lead to believe that gay sex takes even more practice. One day the two of you will figure it out. ;)

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[info]cholasthehedge
2005-10-07 03:35 pm UTC (link)
We'll send you the video :-)

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[info]reulf
2005-10-08 01:16 pm UTC (link)
Was my hinting that unsubtle that it actually worked?

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[info]punkerthanvomit
2005-10-07 02:19 am UTC (link)
My friends are quite the opposite. I know far too much about their sex lives, which makes it hard since I'm an intensely private person.
I find now that I just find it hard to get close to someone, but it's not like anyone wants to. Except all the girls that are seemingly attracted to me. Unfortunately I'm straight.

People are so hung up on sex. I have a friend who seems to think that all his problems will be solved by a sexual relationship. I am pretty much celibate at the moment, and he is baffled by this. Whenever I have a problem, he tells me, "I need to get laid"
I had another friend who was celibate till he was 19. Now he's to busy having sex to see his friends.
And it's this massive stigma in our society. Family groups and conservatives continuously complain about "sex and violence" on TV.(But thats another matter). I recently learnt that seemingly innocent advertisments have "polymorphic undertones" with phallic symbols and whatnot. Freud completely overstates the sexual.
The thing is, I'm feeling fine. Sex is not as big a deal as everyone makes it out to be.

I'm sorry, I had points to make but I think it all got lost somewhere in there.
And a line from some crappy erotic fiction "Girls play to be filled, guys play to be emptied."

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[info]reulf
2005-10-07 07:46 am UTC (link)
It is funny how few people understand asexuality but I am sure it is more common then society would have us believe. I doubt anyone would believe me if I said that James and I have been going out for 11 months, live together and yet we have only had sex once. But actually it is true. It just doesn't really matter to use all that much.

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[info]punkerthanvomit
2005-10-08 02:18 pm UTC (link)
That actually makes me feel better, surprisingly. That or I'm just delusionally tired and I just don't know what I'm feeling anymore.

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[info]estrangler
2006-03-05 02:02 pm UTC (link)
I was just on a LJ profile reading spree and I came across yours with the "Selected Entries of Fleur" thing. I like this; I wish people would talk more openly about sex. The last time I wrote about sex on my journal, someone accused me of being an exhibitionist. How have your feelings changed in the last two years?

I love the line in the E. E. Cummings poem, "i love my body when it is with your body" -- being beside a lover always makes me feel completely beautiful.

I remember that in primary school sex was naughty and dirty, disgusting and fascinating. By late high school we were taught (and said, in turn) that sex was normal and healthy and right and nothing to be ashamed of. I still believe this, and as I've got older my ideas of sex that's "right" has extended to include anything reasonably safe between consenting human adults, and I try to talk about incest and bestiality and age of consent rationally and without prejudice. But while I'll always say and believe that sex is nothing to be ashamed of, personally I do like to think of the actual act of sex as a little bit naughty and remove it from the academic/theoretical context. After a day of reading about sexuality in the classical world and the role of eros in civic society, or arguing about consistency of age of consent laws for homosexual and heterosexual sex, or talking about social acceptance of BDSM as a legitimate expression of sexuality, when I get into bed (or on the floor, kitchen table, in the garden, etc) I really want to dissociate it from all that and restore the risque aspect. I completely understand the need for sex studies to fortify their legitimacy through rational argument and sometimes quite clinical language, but it's a bit sad that sex can be made so boring. Keep the sex in sexology, I say.

cut to the chase, baby, cum on my face
- your wedding night, "money shot"

Oh, and I love soft bellies too.

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[info]reulf
2006-03-05 10:10 pm UTC (link)
You know, I often think about this post these days. One line that I always remember is 'I have forgiven my body for not being someone elses.' I must admit, I was either lying at the time or I was much healthier then. I frequently won't let my body be touched because it seems too hideous. I binge eat and then starve. This greatly affects one's view of sex.

Sex was something that didn't come easily to James and I. This is part of the reason that I believe so strongly in sex ed because, despite knowing about STDs, we didn't actually know what to do. I don't just mean that we were bad, we actually couldn't have sex. We didn't for the first 10 months of our relationship. This was incredibly hard. I remember one weekend where I decided that either I was doing something wrong or he was gay. I was so depressed by that thought. Anyone else is allowed to be gay but not the man I am inlove with, i'm afraid. Finally, we stopped trying and relaxed enough so that one day we actually managed it without really noticing. For a couple that have lived together for so much of their relationship, we are probably freaks. I think we have only had sex about 5 times.

Because of all this sex doesn't seem common place to me. It is a privelidge. I wish it was more fun but for me at this stage it still carries the agony of those 10 months.

"being beside a lover always makes me feel completely beautiful." What a lovely thing to say! I have had one experience where I felt beautiful and that wasn't with James i am afriad. Because the guy involved and I were not planning on having sex, did not have that agony hanging over us, we were very comfortable. it still remains probably the sexiest memory I have. He was beautiful and I was beautiful. He, having little sexual experience, was thrilled by everything I did, was amazed to touch my stomach and was delighted just to have me hold him. This is a precious, if forbidden memory and, despite the fact that both of us know it shouldn't have happened, I think we both still treasure it.

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