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I've exhausted his righteous indignation, I think. We'll see if he has anything else to say.
He represents to me a very predictable phenomenon I see in SF fandom, on the Internet, and especially within furry fandom.
The phenomenon involves very brittle person with poor social skills who has a very hard time seeing beyond himself. Incredible self-absorption. Not in an arrogance sort of way, but in an intense self-focus coupled with a lack of ability to see things from the perspective of others. Call it "George W. Bush Syndrome." This sort of person is drawn to SF fandom, the Internet, and especially to furry fandom, because people who are geeks frequent all three. The latter gets the most of them because Furry fandom has a culture of "we must tolerate everything, intolerance under any circumstances is BAD" that makes it suck like Courtney Love when you're holding her last 8-ball.
I don't know if this person's poor social skills are the consequence of his self-absorption, or if his self-absorption is the consequence of not being properly socialized. Maybe the two fed on each other in a circle of banality not seen since Menudo broke up.
Conflict with such a person - and I'll give this person a generic name. Perry Pariah. Yes. Anyway. Conflict with Perry usually happens one of two ways. Either something happens to upset Perry due to misunderstanding or accident, or Perry, through antisocial behavior or very stupid choices, draws negative attention to himself. Be that an overweight ugly man showing cameltoe, declaring one's sexual attraction to lower life forms (and I don't mean Paris Hilton), or simply being disruptive and antisocial like a fart in an elevator.
Perry wants to be the virtuous. The noble. And in Perry's mind, being unjustly under attack imparts those qualities to him. So he reacts as if he's under attack and facing a threat when it's really little more than the disapproval or anger of another human being. Auschwitz passed him by and he's not Jewish anyway, so this persecution is all he has. Becuase Perry gets his chance to draw attention to himself, and seek out the sympathy, pats on the back, and there theres from people in his community. He truly believes he's being persecuted most of the time to the point that making comparisons to lynchings or rapes doesn't seem absurd to him, and the negative attention he receives may not be worth the positive attention he's getting out of it to his mind, but deep down he craves just to be noticed, and this is his opportunity to be noticed. Bad publicity, good publicity, whatever. As long as you notice him. (Make your own Tonya Harding joke here.)
So he cries foul. And he usually lashes out more, often at third parties, drawing in more negative attention, which will draw in more sympathy and reinforce his self-image as a martyr. Never does it occur to him that the volume of outcry against him and the few voices supporting him might be an indication the problem is with him. Obviously the world is fucked up, why else would he be a victim?
Now here's someone like me, stepping into this and going "What a load of shit." And someone like me - I'm not the only one who does it, but I'll just speak in the first person for now - I call him out for his bullshit. Call him out for what he did wrong, how he caused his own problems. And I'm usually not polite about it. Which is to say I snark at him like Howard Stern sitting on a cactus.
The argument usually takes the following course:
- I call Perry out for his drama queening.
- Perry accuses me of being a supporter of his enemies, real or imagined.
- Perry's one or two yes men accompany him in that attack. He will later masturbate fantasizing about his loyal followers.
- I list out Perry's actions and how he isn't a victim, but an instigator.
- Perry explains away or justifies or simply ignores such claims and reiterates that I'm a BAD BAD person who supports those who are persecuting him. He is Martin Luther, and I am the Pope. I am the little boy tying paper bags to the kitty's feet. He's Colin Powell at a Council of Conservative Citizens convention.
- The argument proceeds like that for a couple exchanges until I make a point that sinks in, and Perry realizes he's talking to someone with a brain, not a mindless attacking drone. He realizes that he might have to change his tactics to include such concepts as logic and reason. He consults a dictionary to find out what 'logic' and 'reason' mean.
- At this point, Perry will either make a tiny admission of making a minor error at some point (to disprove my contention that he's incapable of such), or simply declare me not worth his time in a four-page annotated manifesto.
- If he makes the tiny admission, I then challenge him to consider how mistake X was part of larger mistake Y. Then Perry will declare me not worth his time in the aforementioned manifesto.
- Perry's side of the exchange will not disappear but will dwindle at this point. The contents of his remaining posts will be repeated declarations of how I'm not worth his time, combined with insults, unflattering remarks, and, in the case of some Perrys, threats of violence. Then they'll finally disappear completely when I don't crumple under a barrage of his shit flung as if from a platoon of monkeys who found a fifty pound bag of sugar.
- Perry returns to his one or two yes men who will pat him on the back for standing up to the terrible bully. 'How brave you were," they say, "standing bravely in the face of critical thought! How unwavering you were in your established dogma!" Then they have a group hug and a circle jerk.
It's an extremely predictable pattern, and Jay followed it to the letter. And this, you see, is why I'm a supporter of things like trolling and mocking.
You see, there is a subsection of fannish, internet, and especially furry culture that stresses getting along to the point of dishonesty. If you stink, someone needs to tell you to bathe more often. If you make an ass of yourself, someone needs to tell you to stop. But people like Jay, the Perrys of the world, have severe social and emotional issues that they don't want to face. So they crave to find an environment of acceptance to extreme levels - to the point where it becomes not accepting but enabling. And when you enable bad behaviors or self-destructive mindsets, they get worse, like the alcoholic's wife who covers for him when his drunkenness would otherwise get him in trouble, or when Orrin Hatch won't subpoena documents showing Rummy sold us out to Halliburton.
I hate enabling. I don't like when people enable. It takes away a major impetus for self-improvement, or to address ones problems, because it eliminates the consequences of one's actions. Personal responsibility goes away, and all that's left is decay. And it's also dishonest. Do you want to be surrounded by people who won't be honest with you? Do you want to live a lie? The Perrys of the world want to. I don't. Lots of people like me don't. And that means we're going to be honest, even brutally honest, when others do something stupid. That means we're going to get mad when you tick us off. That means we're going to laugh when you do something stupid. And that means you're going to know where you really stand, even if that's in front of the doorway I'm gonna kick your ass through.
And if you don't like it, go join the furries. They will always tell a pleasant lie over an honest truth. They will never judge you, no matter how asinine you behave. They will never, ever give you any indication of the wrongness of your self-destructive, antisocial behaviors. And together, you can sit around and talk about how the honest people are "bullies" and bad people, and maybe you can say without fear of rejection how we should all be shot, censured, silenced, punished, castrated, sliced, diced, fed to wolves, assraped by a three-cocked Wingerian gryphon, or whatever it is you sick fucks fantasize about.
Freedom of speech is a bitch. If you can't handle the freedom, get the fuck off my Internet.
He represents to me a very predictable phenomenon I see in SF fandom, on the Internet, and especially within furry fandom.
The phenomenon involves very brittle person with poor social skills who has a very hard time seeing beyond himself. Incredible self-absorption. Not in an arrogance sort of way, but in an intense self-focus coupled with a lack of ability to see things from the perspective of others. Call it "George W. Bush Syndrome." This sort of person is drawn to SF fandom, the Internet, and especially to furry fandom, because people who are geeks frequent all three. The latter gets the most of them because Furry fandom has a culture of "we must tolerate everything, intolerance under any circumstances is BAD" that makes it suck like Courtney Love when you're holding her last 8-ball.
I don't know if this person's poor social skills are the consequence of his self-absorption, or if his self-absorption is the consequence of not being properly socialized. Maybe the two fed on each other in a circle of banality not seen since Menudo broke up.
Conflict with such a person - and I'll give this person a generic name. Perry Pariah. Yes. Anyway. Conflict with Perry usually happens one of two ways. Either something happens to upset Perry due to misunderstanding or accident, or Perry, through antisocial behavior or very stupid choices, draws negative attention to himself. Be that an overweight ugly man showing cameltoe, declaring one's sexual attraction to lower life forms (and I don't mean Paris Hilton), or simply being disruptive and antisocial like a fart in an elevator.
Perry wants to be the virtuous. The noble. And in Perry's mind, being unjustly under attack imparts those qualities to him. So he reacts as if he's under attack and facing a threat when it's really little more than the disapproval or anger of another human being. Auschwitz passed him by and he's not Jewish anyway, so this persecution is all he has. Becuase Perry gets his chance to draw attention to himself, and seek out the sympathy, pats on the back, and there theres from people in his community. He truly believes he's being persecuted most of the time to the point that making comparisons to lynchings or rapes doesn't seem absurd to him, and the negative attention he receives may not be worth the positive attention he's getting out of it to his mind, but deep down he craves just to be noticed, and this is his opportunity to be noticed. Bad publicity, good publicity, whatever. As long as you notice him. (Make your own Tonya Harding joke here.)
So he cries foul. And he usually lashes out more, often at third parties, drawing in more negative attention, which will draw in more sympathy and reinforce his self-image as a martyr. Never does it occur to him that the volume of outcry against him and the few voices supporting him might be an indication the problem is with him. Obviously the world is fucked up, why else would he be a victim?
Now here's someone like me, stepping into this and going "What a load of shit." And someone like me - I'm not the only one who does it, but I'll just speak in the first person for now - I call him out for his bullshit. Call him out for what he did wrong, how he caused his own problems. And I'm usually not polite about it. Which is to say I snark at him like Howard Stern sitting on a cactus.
The argument usually takes the following course:
- I call Perry out for his drama queening.
- Perry accuses me of being a supporter of his enemies, real or imagined.
- Perry's one or two yes men accompany him in that attack. He will later masturbate fantasizing about his loyal followers.
- I list out Perry's actions and how he isn't a victim, but an instigator.
- Perry explains away or justifies or simply ignores such claims and reiterates that I'm a BAD BAD person who supports those who are persecuting him. He is Martin Luther, and I am the Pope. I am the little boy tying paper bags to the kitty's feet. He's Colin Powell at a Council of Conservative Citizens convention.
- The argument proceeds like that for a couple exchanges until I make a point that sinks in, and Perry realizes he's talking to someone with a brain, not a mindless attacking drone. He realizes that he might have to change his tactics to include such concepts as logic and reason. He consults a dictionary to find out what 'logic' and 'reason' mean.
- At this point, Perry will either make a tiny admission of making a minor error at some point (to disprove my contention that he's incapable of such), or simply declare me not worth his time in a four-page annotated manifesto.
- If he makes the tiny admission, I then challenge him to consider how mistake X was part of larger mistake Y. Then Perry will declare me not worth his time in the aforementioned manifesto.
- Perry's side of the exchange will not disappear but will dwindle at this point. The contents of his remaining posts will be repeated declarations of how I'm not worth his time, combined with insults, unflattering remarks, and, in the case of some Perrys, threats of violence. Then they'll finally disappear completely when I don't crumple under a barrage of his shit flung as if from a platoon of monkeys who found a fifty pound bag of sugar.
- Perry returns to his one or two yes men who will pat him on the back for standing up to the terrible bully. 'How brave you were," they say, "standing bravely in the face of critical thought! How unwavering you were in your established dogma!" Then they have a group hug and a circle jerk.
It's an extremely predictable pattern, and Jay followed it to the letter. And this, you see, is why I'm a supporter of things like trolling and mocking.
You see, there is a subsection of fannish, internet, and especially furry culture that stresses getting along to the point of dishonesty. If you stink, someone needs to tell you to bathe more often. If you make an ass of yourself, someone needs to tell you to stop. But people like Jay, the Perrys of the world, have severe social and emotional issues that they don't want to face. So they crave to find an environment of acceptance to extreme levels - to the point where it becomes not accepting but enabling. And when you enable bad behaviors or self-destructive mindsets, they get worse, like the alcoholic's wife who covers for him when his drunkenness would otherwise get him in trouble, or when Orrin Hatch won't subpoena documents showing Rummy sold us out to Halliburton.
I hate enabling. I don't like when people enable. It takes away a major impetus for self-improvement, or to address ones problems, because it eliminates the consequences of one's actions. Personal responsibility goes away, and all that's left is decay. And it's also dishonest. Do you want to be surrounded by people who won't be honest with you? Do you want to live a lie? The Perrys of the world want to. I don't. Lots of people like me don't. And that means we're going to be honest, even brutally honest, when others do something stupid. That means we're going to get mad when you tick us off. That means we're going to laugh when you do something stupid. And that means you're going to know where you really stand, even if that's in front of the doorway I'm gonna kick your ass through.
And if you don't like it, go join the furries. They will always tell a pleasant lie over an honest truth. They will never judge you, no matter how asinine you behave. They will never, ever give you any indication of the wrongness of your self-destructive, antisocial behaviors. And together, you can sit around and talk about how the honest people are "bullies" and bad people, and maybe you can say without fear of rejection how we should all be shot, censured, silenced, punished, castrated, sliced, diced, fed to wolves, assraped by a three-cocked Wingerian gryphon, or whatever it is you sick fucks fantasize about.
Freedom of speech is a bitch. If you can't handle the freedom, get the fuck off my Internet.
thoughtful
rant
fatty
poop
self-serving
modified puppetry
fucktard
I can totally dig that.
Um, seriously. I think that was something of a sideways compliment, so thanks!
"Hello, Mr. Kettle. I'm Mr. Pot. You're black."
How much shit have you flung - by your own admission - in myjournal? And you expect me to LISTEN to you?!
You really need to understand people better.
"HOLY KRAP!PF got ahold of Burger's password!!!"
and a spell check.
And that's okay. It was fun. And the reaction continues to chug along!
Self serving?
BTW, check my LJ entries from yesterday...you'll see something I posted (even people in the "real" world recognize this behaviour).
Ebony has had an ohug set for 12 years where she thwaps people she doesn't know who randomly ohug her. This was put there specifically so people would not hug me, something requested by my RL husband.
Unfortunately, in the past couple of years, people who randomly hug Ebony have complained and whined LOUDLY about it, to the point where wizzes have been called. The last straw came when it was "suggested" by a wiz that I change the ohug because it does appear to be on the "offensive" side. Fuck that.
I was brought up in an era when people were told when they were doing stupid shit, and people actually listened and tried to alter their behaviour. Now when someone whines or does something stupid and are called for it, they either puff up in self-righteous indignation or curl up into a ball and weep. Never do they sit back and look at the fact that their behaviour is at fault.
I've got news for you. The world is a cruel place. Always has been, always will be. Learn to deal with it, or go hide under a rock. If you make an utter fool of yourself, you deserve everything that is flung at you.
Re: Self serving?
Of course, there's the flip side - who says what's foolish? If 50,000 people point and laugh at some guy, is majority rule - or majority cruel - really all there is to it?
I happen to believe in this thing called ethics; this other thing called civilization tends to function better with them. The whole "mocking and belittlement" trip "for their own good" is a dodge, in my view; a justification for wallowing in flaming opinions and that feel-good "OH GOD YOU OFFEND ME NOW DIE DIE DIE" reaction we might actually have to someone or something. You can be "brutally honest" without being a shit-flinging asshole. Astoundingly, it can be done. You can walk up to somebody and say "Dude, you look like a slob and people are going to think you're a slob; you might want to pay attention to hygene" without the ad hominem, the self-serving justifications of righteousness, the blanket painting of groups just to say "SEE OMG U ARE ALL TEH SAME". Of course, to people who are too cynical about life, the universe, and everything, the lack of total poopy crap and flame-on attitude may be too pollyanna - I don't know.
The world is what people make of it; if it's a cruel place where abuse is fun and life is shit, people need to start looking in the mirror.
Re: Self serving?
As for "OH GOD YOU OFFEND ME NOW DIE DIE DIE" ... what do you make of the phrase, "ANYONE WHO MAKES FUN OF PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET SHOULD BE SHOT?" Sounds very much in line with that quote of yours. That's a quote from Jay.
Re: Self serving?
And if 50,000 people point and laugh at some guy, it's very likely that guy did something pretty foolish.
Leave Tron guy alone. Nobody's going to care about him in two months. Isn't that punishment enough?
Since you're all new to this...
Anyway, just be glad you haven't had to deal with him as much as this.
- A.P.
Re: Since you're all new to this...
You may hold the record for "Fastest ban by Jay Maynard in an Online Forum", btw; I'll have to check up on that. I think you get like a Fuddrucker's gift certificate or a free teeshirt, and a plaque of some sort.
- A.P.
Let's get some burgers folks! Conga line! Somebody grab my butt!
Nah, my first hit came less than a week after I first joined #wt. Though that may not count because that one was rescinded the same evening...
Re: Since you're all new to this...