Premshree Pillai ([info]premshree) wrote,
@ 2005-02-06 20:20:00
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Current music:Audioslave - Cochise

Breaking up, kinda
There are those who believe that comparing any two programming languages are what dumbfucks do. And then there are those for whom their programming language of choice is their religion. Further, there are confused folks like myself who can’t decide which camp they belong to—or if there’s any other camp they could belong to.

When little languages grow, eventually, the community that led to—that fought for—its growth dies. There still is a community—but it’s no longer niche. It feels good to be part of a niche community, a community whose function is to kill itself—by way of growing to an extent where it cannot sustain itself. The original community—the niche community—that started it all, that’s (in some probability) part of the (now) much larger, loosely coupled community tries to find niche in subtleties. Being niche after growth is an impossible proposition. The verve for evangelism is no longer what it used to be—perhaps because it’s no longer required. The community is big. The community is dead.

One of the many things that come gratis with a human being is the prerogative to choose. True, choice can be influenced by others—but it cannot be made by others. Python has grown to an extent where it no longer requires Yet Another Evangelist. It requires educators, yes. I choose to no longer evangelize about Python. This, however, does not mean that I’ll have nothing to do with Python. I am—at the moment, at least for some time to come—very much part of BangPypers—and will speak on topics that interest me.

One other nice thing about being a human being is that (some of us) can be fickle—we can change decisions at a snap (just like some others make firm decisions at a snap)—without remorse, at times. (Remorse is involuntary, unfortunately, else we could even choose that—to be remorseful or not.) Feel free to influence my decision. The choice I make remains mine, of course.

I am very much in love with Ruby. One always hopes to fall in love only once—but when you have fallen in love in the past and are no longer in love, you cannot make promises about how long your love for the New Person In Your Life will last. So, there, I make no promises.

There’s only so much one can do in life.



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[info]freegeek
2005-02-06 03:35 pm UTC (link)
Just use what does the job. The right tool for the right task.

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[info]teemus
2005-02-06 04:31 pm UTC (link)
But then, when performance issues kick in, the 'right tool' starts looking wrong. :)

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[info]freegeek
2005-02-06 04:34 pm UTC (link)
obviously you factor that beforehand

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[info]gromhellscream
2005-02-07 05:14 am UTC (link)
err .. the 'right tool' is supposed to have been chosen after thinking about such issues

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(Anonymous)
2005-02-10 01:02 pm UTC (link)
Then it isn't the 'right tool' is it?

Or do you have a specialmeaning where 'right tool' means 'not the right tool'?

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[info]code_martial
2005-02-06 04:49 pm UTC (link)
The right tool for the right task.

I'm gonna puke the next time I hear this. There is no right tool. There is no right job. Period.

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[info]freegeek
2005-02-06 05:01 pm UTC (link)
Of course there is ;-)

And when there are multiple choices you have to find the right choice :)

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[info]premshree
2005-02-07 04:05 pm UTC (link)
You only love one person in one domain.

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[info]freegeek
2005-02-07 04:50 pm UTC (link)
Love? What Love? Love is impractical, blind and illogical. I'm talking about cold hearted choices which benefit you the most :)

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[info]gromhellscream
2005-02-07 05:17 am UTC (link)
right tool for the right task!

please puke:p.. yes there is. writing a text processing program in C/C++ is just idiotic..use Perl.. Writing a performance intensive code..in perl may not be the best idea.. use C/C++

Writing a tight memory bound code..use C/C++..

writing web scripts in C/C++ would be idiotic..use php/asp

writing large scale enterprise applications ( with lot of db stuff in C/C++ is dumb ) use Java/C# anything that makes that easier.

Yes there is a right tool for the right task. Sure u can write everything in C/C++ but then the point is you have to realize the tradeoff in terms of time spent vs value gained.

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[info]code_martial
2005-02-07 10:25 am UTC (link)
Why can't I write a text processing program in anything other than Perl?

Is C++ the only P/L meant for high performance code?

Why only PHP/ASP? Why shouldn't I use JSP, ASP.Net, Python, Ruby or any of the umpteen other languages for web scripting? And if people can bear with ASP.Net and JSP having to go through compilation, so can they with a CGI backend written in C++ with mod_fast_cgi, but that's beside the point.

What makes you think that doing DB stuff in C++ is any more difficult or doing it in Java/C# is any more simple? There's a C++ library for connecting to PostgreSQL that I found much easier than JDBC. I don't mean to say that DB programming should be done in C++. I'm saying that if you think C# or Java make it simple, you are probably doing a disfavour to a lot of tools you probably don't even know of.

All that you have is a problem and some tools lying around. You need to figure out how to get the job with the tools you have. Going out and aquiring a new tool is something that people don't do so often.

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[info]code_martial
2005-02-07 10:30 am UTC (link)
libpq++ is what I was talking of.

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[info]swaroopch
2005-02-06 05:33 pm UTC (link)
Well, I agree that when the community is small and excited about something new, then we like to be part of it. As it grows bigger and bigger, you lose interest but you're still part of it.

However, I disagree that Python no longer requires evangelists. It does in the corporate world. I would like to see a day where companies are using sane languages like Python as a main language. At the very least, it discourages bad code. +1 for that.

- Swaroop
www.swaroopch.info

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[info]premshree
2005-02-09 02:28 pm UTC (link)
Would evangelism lead to acceptance in corporates?

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[info]swaroopch
2005-02-10 05:49 am UTC (link)
Why not?

Marketing matters. MS is really good at it. That's why MS tools are popular in the corporate environment.

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[info]premshree
2005-02-10 06:54 am UTC (link)
Are you suggesting that marketing is same as evangelism?

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[info]swaroopch
2005-02-10 06:58 am UTC (link)
I am not sure where to draw the line between them. But if we evangelize Python, it is purely out of our interest for Python and not because of any monetary considerations. So, yes we _could_ consider it as marketing as well. However, this is only my POV.

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(Anonymous)
2005-02-10 01:06 pm UTC (link)
evangelism comes from the individual, marketing comes from the organisation, but otherwise they are the same.

Is http://www.getfirefox.com/ marketing or evangelism?

Douglas

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Re: Breaking UP
[info]harishforu
2005-02-07 06:20 am UTC (link)
yeah we too agree that none other languages can be compared , its has its own features..,but when the performance strikes..or hits..! then we have to choose the language which is the best...! i dont think when we are using for bare applications we have to go for PYTHON..! may be this may make strong my task I Believe!!..

Any comments on it!!!..This doesnt mean exactly comparing 2 languages

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