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Sat, Aug. 6th, 2005, 09:57 pm Reforming the "Best Editor" Hugo

As some of you are aware, recently I agreed to co-sponsor a motion to the Worldcon business meeting which would have had the effect of splitting the existing Best Professional Editor Hugo Award into two awards, one for magazine editors and one for book editors. Our proposal, our initial argument for it, and many comments pro and con can be read here. It has also been debated in various other venues in the days leading up to Worldcon. At the last minute, Chris Barkley, the original drafter of the measure, had to cancel his plans to attend, leaving me in the somewhat uncomfortable position of being the leading public advocate of a measure from which I might arguably benefit. The short report is that a version of this measure has passed, and been sent on to next year's Worldcon for final ratification. If LACon's business meeting does indeed ratify it, the 2007 Hugos will have two editor categories rather than just one. Here are the details of how it happened, to the best of my recollection. I'm sure I've compressed and telescoped certain details of parliamentary procedure in ways that will grate on experienced Business Meeting attendees; I apologize in advance and welcome their corrections. At Friday's business meeting, our motion came up after much other business had been disposed of. An objection-to-consideration was immediately raised; this objection was then soundly voted down. (Objections to consideration always proceed directly to a vote without debate; subjecting all new business to OTCs is a good way to thin out proposals which have no serious support.) Despite this evidence that the Business Meeting sincerely wanted to discuss our issue, I was pretty convinced, based on the torrent of criticism we'd received before the con, that the prevailing winds were against us, and I was determined to speak for the proposal in such a way that appealed to the assembled SMOFs to recognize the reality of the problem we're trying to address, however they should choose to try to solve it. I didn't have to. Mark Olson, with whom I'd had very courteous arguments beforehand, interceded before debate could be called on our proposal, and moved that the chair deputize him to convene an informal committee to report back the very next day. This committee would be charged with drafting language for a revised-and-reformed single Best Editor Hugo, and new language for a pair of Best Editor Hugos. The committee would take no position on the relative merits of the two approaches; its job would be to construct the best possible language for each. Mark's motion passed. The Friday BM adjourned shortly afterward, and Mark and I went to a corner of the room where we accreted about a dozen other attendees--people like Seth Breidbardt, Sharon Sbarsky, Martin Easterbrook, etc. We very carefully went over both the existing single-award language and the PNH/Barkley split-the awards proposal, attempting to address all the problems people had raaised, one by one. Among other things, we all decided to agree that the award or awards no longer need a "circulation requirement" or, for that matter, any definition of "professional" whatsoever. And we agreed to completely ignore the issue of online "publication" because the BM has already chartered a separate committee to address those kinds of questions throughout the Hugo definitions. The big change we made to the Barkley/PNH proposal was to relocate the anthologists and editors of story collections to the category inhabited by magazine editors, thus addressing the concerns of those who feel that the category is otherwise unsustainably weak. We retitled the two proposed Hugos "Best Editor (Short Fiction)" and "Best Editor (Long Fiction)". The dividing line between "short" and "long" would be that already defined in the WSFS charter: 40,000 words. The big change we made to the existing single category, in drafting the alternative don't-create-a-new-Hugo plan, was to eliminate all the magazine-specific language and insert language making it explicitly clear that book editors are to be consiered eligible. Mark wrote out a fair copy of the language for both proposals, and later typed it up and posted it in an agreed-in-advance public location, so we could all read it one more time before Mark handed it off to the Business Meeting officials that evening, for inclusion in the next day's agenda. The next morning, by pre-arrangement, debate was opened on both proposals very shortly after the 10 AM start of business, as I had a panel to appear on at 11 AM. Debate was quick and to the point. After a brief motion by Rick Katze to amend the two-category motion in such a way as to prohibit any editor from accepting nomination in both categories (after a brief debate, this was voted down Everyone-to-Rick), I gave the opening speech in favor of the two-category version. My basic point was this: I am entirely in sympathy with the BM's historic reluctance to create new Hugos. Down that road, if unchecked, lies a Hugo category for Best Filksong, and we all know it. Rather, I continued, I am before you to engage in a massive act of special pleading. And the case I make to you is this: Book publishing has been the dominant mode of production in written SF for over fifty years. If the magazines were all to die tomorrow, it would be a tragedy. If SF book publishing were to cease tomorrow, it would be the end of our subculture. I concluded by reading the names of forty book editors in our industry who each edit four or more new titles each year. Tim Illingworth alternated calling on speakers in favor of the reformed single category and speakers in favor of the two-category proposal. Among the notables who rose to speak in favor of the two-category proposal--in essence, our proposal--were Priscilla Olson, Craig Miller, Kevin Standlee, and Ben Yalow. Also in attendance were several other book editors, including Ginjer Buchanan of Ace, Anne Groell of Bantam, freelancer (and former Avon editor) John Douglas, and Moshe Feder of Tor. John, Ginjer, and Moshe were all among the speakers. Moshe in particular was able to rebut some false assertions about Hugo history that were raised by opposing speakers. A counted-off vote was taken between the two proposals. The two-category proposal defeated the reform-the-existing-category proposal 39 to 20. A vote was then taken on passing the two-category proposal and sending it on to LACon for ratification. This passed 51 to 6. I got to my 11:00 panel at 11:06. Of course, it seems entirely plausible that at tomorrow's Hugo ceremony, book editor David Hartwell will turn out to have finally, after being a finalist sixteen times, won. If so, this LJ entry will exist to show that I was alive in advance to the possibility of massive irony. Sat, Aug. 6th, 2005 09:22 pm (UTC)
profundo_rosso

Patrick, so far as I can see, you've acted throughout with complete openness, honesty and integrity. Anyone who suggests differently (and yes, Ted, I include you) is Plain Wrong. Sat, Aug. 6th, 2005 09:56 pm (UTC)
akirlu

Ted is unlikely to read LJ AFAICT, but I agree with you that Ted is stuffed full of wild blueberry muffins, and an aging grump besides. But You Knew That. Sat, Aug. 6th, 2005 10:08 pm (UTC)
profundo_rosso

It's a huge pity he gets so fixated on certain topics, switching off his rationality in order to keep on driving through one particular point in the face of all evidence to the contrary. I really like Ted, and respect much of what he's achieved, but I do wish he'd take his thumb off the broadcast button occasionally and allow incoming transmissions. Sat, Aug. 6th, 2005 10:12 pm (UTC)
akirlu

Yes to all of that. With peanut clusters. Sat, Aug. 6th, 2005 10:11 pm (UTC)
akirlu

Oh, I am so pleased. I dunno if I had explicitly said so, but the division along long form versus short form was the one I liked the best anyhow, specifically to keep the magazine-editing category from becoming too small to support a proper short list. I think getting a blue-ribbon committee on optimizing the language for both versions was brilliant -- I wish that happened more often. I'm kind of amazed the proposal went through so resoundingly. After the various negativity I saw in the SMOFS list, et alia, I was expecting a multi-year battle. I consider the proposal going through in one to be to the dual credit of Mark's excellent suggestion of cleaning up the language first, and y'all's well-informed advocacy of the division. Bravo. Sat, Aug. 6th, 2005 10:16 pm (UTC)
pnh

You did indeed advocate a "short form"/"long form" split, in one of your posts to the discusssion on trufen.net. Sat, Aug. 6th, 2005 10:21 pm (UTC)
gerisullivan

Patrick, thank you for your post! It's ever so timely — just five minutes earlier, I told friends on the US side of the Pond that I wanted the details behind the proposal passing. Voila! Here they are. Sat, Aug. 6th, 2005 10:43 pm (UTC)
sartorias

Ah, thanks for combining all the facts into one easily-comprehended post. Bits and scraps of elusive detail ( and misleading detail) have been floating about. Sat, Aug. 6th, 2005 11:49 pm (UTC)
wild_patience

This seems like a sensible thing to do. I have a general question: how do those of us who are just readers tell who is deserving of the Hugo for best editor in long form? My personal opinion is that one shouldn't vote on any category in which one is not familiar with the entries, but this seems to me to be an area which requires inside knowledge. Voting for best editor in short form seems simple enough: you can judge a magazine or anthology by the selections chosen and the way things are balanced. Without seeing the original manuscript, I think it's hard for a reader to tell just what a book editor has done. What am I missing here? Sun, Aug. 7th, 2005 12:21 am (UTC)
dd_b

Some books, including many from Tor, credit the editor inside. My guess is that some semi-official method will come up for editors at other publishers to make their association with particular books public -- perhaps the same, simple, approach of crediting them, or a listing on the web site, or something. Perhaps a consensus could be reached that it would not be considered campaigning (in a bad way) for an editor to post a list of the books edited in the previous years, or something. Also, perhaps groups like NESFA that do serious nomination lists will do the research and, where possible, list the editor as well as the author on novels they consider worthy. While it's not certain that the best-novel-editor would have edited some of the novels considered best, it does seem *likely*. Some publishers may wish to *not* make known the editors on books, too; some editors may be effectively barred from winning this award by that kind of policy by their employers. Sun, Aug. 7th, 2005 02:05 am (UTC)
cogitationitis
Also, perhaps groups like NESFA that do serious nomination lists will do the research and, where possible, list the editor as well as the author on novels they consider worthy.Since several NESFen were involved in this project, I suspect they would be open to that idea. I rather hope Locus will also provide the editors of it's top picks. (One should note that NESFA would never have an eligible editor, since nobody is crazy enough to edit four books in a year at NESFA. A co-editor, maybe.) I was rather startled that the proposal had passed by such a wide margin, given the acrimony and conservatism of Smofs. However, the modified proposal make much more sense; and it is, after all, a different matter to edit short fiction (where you're looking for conciseness) than long (where you have to make sure page 223 doesn't conflict with page 23). Patrick, you are as much Smof as editor; if any editor were to introduce this proposal, I'd pick you. nevertheless, I can understand murmurings of impropriety. Thankfully, you're above such. Sun, Aug. 7th, 2005 03:51 am (UTC)
ffoeg

I don't think it's so much a question of how to tell who the editor was, as an inability to judge, based only on reading a finished product, what the editor did. For example, I just finished Robert Charles Wilson's Spin (edited by TNH) and loved it. Was it delivered in that brilliant state to TNH, or was she responsible for some changes that transformed it from good to great? I have no idea and could really never have any idea without comparing manuscripts or hearing insider stories. So on what basis am I to nominate or vote for best editor? If it's just based on the quality of the book, then will this category merely be an echo of Best Novel? I'm glad of this change; I ask out of actual curiousity, not to pose difficult questions. Thanks, Patrick, for your work in making the change and for the interesting report here. Sun, Aug. 7th, 2005 05:38 am (UTC)
brooksmoses

Well, editors don't just take delivered manuscripts and convert them into finished books, they also select which manuscripts should become books in the first place. Though I don't actually know how much that decision should be "blamed" on the same editor that weilded the red pen on the manuscript -- is it appropriate to consider Teresa as largely responsible for that choice? I'd think that sort of thing becomes particularly relevant with regard to new authors; one of the valuable things that editors do is pick the gems out of the vast slush piles, and the quality of the gems they find does reflect quite notably on them. (From the writers' perspective, the speed with which they do so may also be significant for voting purposes!) If an editor's selection of first-novel authors is consistently good, that's definitely something valid to base a vote on. As for the actual red-penning, with established authors one can probably make some judgements with regards to the author's prior work. If the current book is a distinct improvement over previous books, there's probably at least partly the hand of the editor involved. Mon, Aug. 8th, 2005 01:23 pm (UTC)
profundo_rosso

I can see ffeog's point, though. Maybe authors who feel their editors have been especially supportive and helpful could put forward nominations? Wed, Aug. 10th, 2005 10:58 pm (UTC)
jonathanstrahan
Ffoeg, One flaw in your argument is that there is no way for someone reading any published piece of fiction, long or short, to know what the editor may or may not have done. I completely believe that Gardner, Ellen, Gordon, Stan and the other magazine editors are terrific at what they do and deserve their Hugo wins/noms over the years. But, I don't know and can't tell for sure based on the published stories in the magazines, that they have in fact 'edited' anything. The current 'Best Editor' award is really 'person credited with editing work I liked best'. Is there a danger that the Best Long Fiction Editor award will simply follow the Best Novel, and become 'person credited with editing the novel I liked best'. Sure. But then, is that so different from the current situation? I've never worked it ou, but I'll bet that there is a strong correlation Best Editor nominations and the Best Short Fiction awards. The question then becomes is that ok, or is this award completely for the wrong thing. Should we instead move to a Best Magazine and Best Book Publisher award, or even realise that Best Novel covers it and you only need a Best Magazine category? Though I kinda like the solution Patrick has worked on, I would understand that one too. Sun, Aug. 7th, 2005 04:46 am (UTC)
cmzhang: Judging Hugo Editors
Hello, Chris Barkley here...
I was just reveling in the good news (at 12:45 EDT) and scanning Patrick's blog when I came across your post. A good friend, who attended the BM as well, had the same question you did.
How do you judge who's doing a good job as a book editor? Easy, you judge the finished product itself. For example, If you LOVED, LOVED, LOVED Iron Council, you may want to consider nominating the editor of the book, whomever that might be, for a Hugo.
cmb
wild_patience wrote:
Voting for best editor in short form seems simple enough: you can judge a magazine or anthology by the selections chosen and the way things are balanced. Without seeing the original manuscript, I think it's hard for a reader to tell just what a book editor has done. What am I missing here? Sun, Aug. 7th, 2005 09:31 am (UTC)
dhole: Re: Judging Hugo Editors

After thinking about it for a while, I've come to the conclusion that I'm in favor of the new catagories, and thus, happy that the motion passed. However, it seems to me that if the logic behind nominations and voting is as described above, I'd be, on the balance, against the way the motion was formulated. We already have a Best Novel Hugo. If voting for Best Editor is going to be conducted on the basis of which single book you liked best, why not simply add a Best Editor Hugo for whoever edited the Best Novel? Sun, Aug. 7th, 2005 11:38 am (UTC)
pnh: Re: Judging Hugo Editors

Yeah, I agree with dhole. I suspect Chris didn't really mean to suggest people should vote based on a single book. Of course, in reality, people are going to vote for all sorts of reasons, many of which are arbitrary, prejudical, or based on insufficient data. This is true of every category in every popularly-voted award. What we can hope is that, in aggregate, out of the white noise we'll get reasonable results. I've been arguing is that it's not really hard to start noticing who edits what in our relatively small field, even without fans and editors devoting extra energy to tracking this data. It's certainly no more of an intellectual challenge to the electorate than the eligibility requirements of the John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer, and yet we cope. Once the new award actually exists, we'll make the tools to cope even better. Sun, Aug. 7th, 2005 03:32 pm (UTC)
cmzhang: Re: Judging Hugo Editors
Because that would be TOO EASY!
Ok, seriously though, I have given this a lot of thought and came up with the following conclusion; what we, as readers and nominators have to judge is is an intangible process whose only results we see are the end product, in this case, groups of stories and individual novels.
If I'm a responsible nominator, my choices for Best Long Form Fiction Editor should be from an elite group of people who not only edited my choice for the best novel of the year but best novels of the year.
Editors work on several novels annually. If an editor A is credited with editing, say, two or three novels that end up on the final Hugo ballot, so be it. If the voters find that editors B, C and D did a better job with their single nominee and other books they liked that did not make the ballot, so be it. An unlikely scenario? Possibly, but that's democracy in action.
Like art, choices like these and the processes behind them will always be complex, messy and subjective. But it's better than the alternative which is not having any Hugo Awards.
Let's give this compromise a chance. If any inequities do occur, I'm sure they can be worked out. Thanks for the comment.
cmb
ps: Any editting misttakes arree mine oownn. she's on vaaccattion. Sun, Aug. 7th, 2005 08:54 am (UTC)
pnh
"Without seeing the original manuscript, I think it's hard for a reader to tell just what a book editor has done. What am I missing here?"As I've said in other venues, I don't think this is significantly different from the way we can't tell what (for instance) Gordon Van Gelder did or didn't do in editing the novella appearing in this month's F&SF. In both cases the readers only have the finished product from which to judge. It's true that magazines present a packaged gestalt, labelled with an easily-discerned editorial credit, that books often don't. But this is a soluble problem. Tor started running editorial credits on some of its books ten years ago, specifically in response to vociferous fannish demand. I'm not kidding; I remember being on multiple panels, defending the idea that book editors should be invisible anbd anonymous, and getting my head handed to me by outspoken fans. In fact a significant number of fans want to know who edited what. For very good reason. In a world increasingly overstuffed with choices, reliable "brands" become even more important to everyone's ability to construct personal filters. And if we want to encourage more such clear labelling, well, as several experienced Worldcon and Hugo administrators pointed out in yesterday's Business Meeting debate, the creation of a Hugo for novel editing will significantly encourage more publishers and editors in the practice. The fact of the matter is that the task of collecting "inside knowledge," making useful distinctions within that "inside knowledge," collating the information into useful form, and disseminating it to those interested, is one of the things fandom does best. SF book editing isn't all that complicated. We have other Hugos which are arguably as dependent on "inside knowledge", and we cope quite well with the task of passing the required knowledge around. Sun, Aug. 7th, 2005 01:55 pm (UTC)
sleigh

I'd contend that book editors also create a gestalt, much as a magazine editor does. I think the observant reader can discern types of books and writers that a particular editor prefers, and perhaps glimpse some of the guiding hand. By the way, splitting the award into Editor/Short Fiction and Editor/Long Fiction makes sense, moreso than the magazine/book proposal. Good move! Sun, Aug. 7th, 2005 08:25 pm (UTC)
calimac
The short form/long form split was the way to go. It's analogous to the fiction split and even the DP split, and it just makes sense. Kudos to all who thought of it.
Either under the split Hugo or a single Best Editor Hugo, the question of how to decide who's a good book editor will come up. Under a split Hugo, there will be more incentive for news sources (as well as books themselves) to list book editors and what books they've edited.
True, there are occasions when editors just have to grab excellent work that falls into their laps and publish it, but that's no less true of magazine editors than book editors; and they still exercise editorial talent by recognizing the good stuff when they see it.
Even if the split is not confirmed next year, the WSFS has done good work in publicizing the achievements of book editors. Sun, Aug. 7th, 2005 11:57 pm (UTC)
jonathanstrahan
Patrick, I'm curious as to your thoughts on the result of the Best Website Hugo. This year it's effectively a Best Magazine award, going to Ellen Datlow for editing SciFiction. There's no question she deserves it, but doesn't the new formulation for Best Editor create the situation where you effectively have a best book editor award, and possibly two best short fiction editor awards? If the split on the editor awards goes ahead, should the Best Website category be reconsidered? Mon, Aug. 8th, 2005 12:14 am (UTC)
pnh
"Should the Best Website category be reconsidered?"You ask as if the "Best Website" category were some permanent thing. It's not. It was ConJose's nonce category--each committee has the option of trying an experimental category--and Interthingy repeated the experiment. I have no reason to believe it will be repeated next year. In fact, the sigificant thing going on behind the scenes is that the Business Meeting has a committee that supposed to be working on the whole issue of internet publication and how it affects each of the categories. Mon, Aug. 8th, 2005 01:48 am (UTC)
jonathanstrahan
I didn't recall whether the category had been made permanent or not. I don't follow these things that closely, and allow therefore that my comments my appear hamfisted or illinformed, but is there some idea of when the committee on internet publication will report? It seems to me, increasingly, that internet publication should be expressly included in existing categories, removing the need for special recognition. Mon, Aug. 8th, 2005 08:11 am (UTC)
pnh

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound sharp. Yes, you're right, internet publication absolutely needs to be covered by the Hugos; I think everyone agrees about that. The committee's aim, I believe, is to address the problem globally, rather than piecemeal, so we don't spend the next twenty years applying band-aids. Mon, Aug. 8th, 2005 09:00 am (UTC)
jonathanstrahan
I'll be interested to see how, eventually, they approach it. I suspect a simple thing like amending definitions of 'publication' are what is necessary. If you go trying to presenting awards for types of online activity you're headed for madness, especially since the core activity (writing is writing, editing is editing) is the same. Hmmm. More I think about it, the more I think the Best Website category is a temporary anachronism, rather than a good idea. Mon, Aug. 8th, 2005 09:05 am (UTC)
pnh
"Hmmm. More I think about it, the more I think the Best Website category is a temporary anachronism, rather than a good idea."That's exactly right. It's not just an apples-and-oranges category; it's an apples, oranges, jellyfish, and giant sequoias category. It's as if we had a Hugo for "Best Novel Typeset In Baskerville." Mon, Aug. 8th, 2005 09:09 am (UTC)
jonathanstrahan
I guess we won't see anything on this till LA. On the decision to split the editor awards - do you think publishers will be willing to divulge information on who edited what in a useful way? When he gets back from the UK, I'm going to talk to Charles about seeing whether Locus can add some kind of 'edited by' credit to our bibliographic database (I doubt we'd run the information with reviews), but I don't know how much resources we can reasonably devote to it. Mon, Aug. 8th, 2005 11:08 am (UTC)
pnh

Much has been made of whether publishers will be "willing to divulge information" about this, but I really don't see why most of them would object, or really, why it would rise to the level of detail that would require attention from the level of the publisher's executive offices. While I'm sure some publisher somewhere is an exception, by and large I'm unware of a general pattern of publishers prohibiting their editors from letting it be known what books they've been working on. I certainly don't expect Locus to immediately set to devoting lots of time and effort to revising their bibliographic databases. Mon, Aug. 8th, 2005 11:24 am (UTC)
jonathanstrahan: Re: Reforming the "Best Editor" Hugo
I'm torn on this a little. I had an experience here in Australia a couple years back. I was editing an anthology for HarperCollins Australia and my editor had done a wonderful job and I really wanted to credit her for the work she'd done. I asked the publisher if we could put an 'edited by' credit on the copyright page, and was told they were vociferously against it. I was somewhat mystified. I couldn't see a sensible reason why they would object, honestly.
As to Locus, I doubt we'd do much of anything at the moment, other than discuss how to approach the matter, should the award change become a reality. Probably during 2006 we'll start tracking editor information for 2006 releases, that way we'll be ready for our 2007 Recommended Reading List to identify editors. I'd imagine we'd simply add it to that list in each Feb. issue. For example, we currently list it like so:
+ The Knight, Gene Wolfe (Tor)
which we would amend to:
+ The Knight, Gene Wolfe (Tor) (David G. Hartwell ed.)
Or, at least, that would be my guess. Mon, Aug. 8th, 2005 02:42 pm (UTC) (Anonymous)
Jonathan --
Publishing houses routinely give out information on both who is the editor and who is the agent on any given project. We give this information out to Kirkus Review, Publishers Weekly and -- frankly -- anyone who asks. We nearly always give this information out to bookstore buyers (at the chain and indie level) when asked because we have noticed that most buyers have certain favorite editors and their buys reflect this. For most publishers, this extra info can easily be included at the bottom of an accompanying press release.
I agree with Patrick -- I would love to see book editors get the credit they deserve with a Hugo Award.
Colleen @ Del Rey Tue, Aug. 9th, 2005 06:40 am (UTC)
timill

It's an open committee, so you or anyone else with an interest can join and contribute - hugoweb@yahoogroups.com Mon, Aug. 8th, 2005 12:51 am (UTC) (Anonymous): Reforming the "Best Editor" Hugo
Patrick, This makes a lot of sense and I’m glad you put the time in to make it happen. I do have a question about it, though, how will this affect the Best Semi Professional Hugo, if at all? I’ve always thought that it makes no sense for fiction magazines to be considered in the same category as Locus and Chronicle. I felt strongly enough about it to remove Chronicle from the category once I became the publisher. I think it would be more appropriate for semi-professional fiction magazines to be considered along with the Best Editor Magazines award; then have a Best Editor Non-Fiction Award. Leave the Best Fanzine Award as is. I’d love to have Chronicle go toe to toe with Locus, but I’m not willing to cheat someone else out of a Best Semi-Professional nomination to do that. Warren Lapine Mon, Aug. 8th, 2005 11:12 am (UTC)
pnh: Re: Reforming the "Best Editor" Hugo
I think it would be more appropriate for semi-professional fiction magazines to be considered along with the Best Editor Magazines awardI'm confused. There is no "Best Editor Magazines" award, nor are we proposing to create one. Of course, the editors of fiction magazines like Interzone would be perfectly eligible for the proposed "Best Editor (Short Fiction)". Mon, Aug. 8th, 2005 07:51 pm (UTC) (Anonymous): Re: Reforming the "Best Editor" Hugo
Sorry, Patrick, I mistyped that, I meant Best Editor--short fiction, my background was simply showing through in the typo. However, when you said that, “the editors of fiction magazines like Interzone would be perfectly eligible for the proposed ‘Best Editor (Short Fiction)’,” doesn’t that allow those editors to double dip? By that I mean be considered as Best Editor while having their magazines be considered for best Semi-Pro Zine. Again, changing Best Semi-Pro to Best Non-Fiction magazine would change that and reflect the reality of the award. Warren Lapine Tue, Aug. 9th, 2005 02:30 am (UTC) (Anonymous): Re: Reforming the "Best Editor" Hugo
It seems that the good folks at Locus made the same mistake I did. http://www.locusmag.com/ Mon, Aug. 8th, 2005 10:21 am (UTC)
bohemiancoast

I met some filkers I'm acquainted with at breakfast today, while carrying my Hugo. They were cheerful and polite and did the whole can-i-hold-your-hugo thing... but I wondered whether they were thinking "why is it that this one particular weird fannish subculture gets a Hugo when we don't?" And I think the only answer I can give is "but where were you in 1930?" which is not actually all that satisfactory. Mon, Aug. 8th, 2005 06:41 pm (UTC)
spacecrab

I stand ready to vote for Robert Service when the Best Filk Song Composer retro-Hugo comes around (and promise not to complain if Tom Lehrer beats him). But I reserve the right to withdraw into my own private sulk when a 200-verse Dragon Rider saga wins the contemporary "Filkie." ((Right. We're not supposed to call it that.)) |