nomilkplease ([info]nomilkplease) wrote,
@ 2004-06-09 09:18:00
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The Gay Experience
These days, the fabulousness of the gays is hard to contain. At no other time in the history of humanity have gay rights been the focus of so much attention in the media.

You’d think this would happen sooner, given the popularity of musical theatre.

There has been so much accomplishment in terms of achieving equality for gay people around the world. Gay people can now be free of discrimination and prejudice in hair salons around the country. People are finally understanding the fear and terror we face when confronted with enlarged pores.

Many gay people compare this fight for equal rights and non-discrimination to that of African-Americans. However, members of the African-American community have not taken this comparison kindly. In this very site, someone said that "the experience is not the same". I take this to mean that the discrimination that gays face is not the same as that of African-Americans primarily (as it was claimed) because gay people can "choose" not to be gay.

I don't know what it is like to be black in America.

However, these things I do know:
  • A seven year-old boy was scolded and forced to write "I will not use the word gay in school again" after he told his classmates he had two mothers because they are gay.


  • Gwen Araujo, a transgendered 17 year-old girl, was killed by two men after they discovered that Gwen was not biologically female.


  • Theron McGriff was told by an Idaho court that he cannot see his own kids unless his male lover was not present in his own house.


  • A Chicago high school kid was kicked out of his home by his own father after telling his father that he was gay. Hear his story.


  • Gay, lesbian and bisexual youth make up 20-40% of homeless youth in urban areas.


  • 22.2% of gay youth skipped school in the past month because they felt unsafe en route to or at school.


  • In 36 states, it is legal to fire someone based on their sexual orientation. In 46 states, it is legal to do so based on gender identity.


  • By 2003, nearly 9,000 men and women in the Armed Forces were discharged because they were gay.


  • In 1998, when Matthew Shephard confided to two men that he was gay, they deceived him into leaving with them in their car. He was robbed, brutally beaten, tied to a fence and left for dead. He died several days later.

If it were a choice, I think all these hundreds and thousands of people would have chosen not to suffer, face hardship, lose friends and family, their jobs and their lives.

I would never presume to understand the struggles of African-Americans. Gay people are not saying that it is the same to be gay and to be African-American (unless of course, you are gay and African-American). I don't have to learn the Snoop Doggy Dizzle to be cool. But I know that I only have admiration for their achievements. If we compare ourselves with African-Americans, it's only because we've seen what they have achieved and that's what we want for ourselves.




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[info]go_wade_in
2004-06-09 02:43 pm UTC (link)
those people are idiots if they can't understand that equal rights is equal rights, regardless of race, religion, or sexual identity.

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[info]gopower
2004-06-09 03:05 pm UTC (link)
It's unfortunate that you put this list of serious problems in the context of the African-American vs. gay discrimination experience. I suspect most African-Americans would say it only proves the point that there is no comparison, considering slavery, lynchings, Jim Crow, denial of the right to vote, persistent economic discrimination, etc. Gays hurt their cause -- and alienate potential allies -- every time they use the comparison.

I'd also note that the statistics cited by PFLAG on the list are not worth the cyberspace they take up. "Studies" like this are crippled from the outset by sample selection biases, e.g., the difference between gay/lesbian high school students who "identify" on a survey form as gay vs. those who do not. Looking at urban homeless youth who congregate in Boystown, you'll get a wholly different picture than looking at homeless youth who squat in the projects on the South Side. Such studies may make good talking points, but they are bad science.

I'd also take issue with the Idaho court reference which makes it sound like that is public policy. It's a divorce proceeding; the judge is enforcing the mother's wishes, not necessarily his own. It would not be difficult to find similar court cases with restrictions placed on contact with the new heterosexual significant others. Whether custodial parents should be allowed to impose their views in such matters is worth debate, but it's not a gay issue per se.

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[info]go_wade_in
2004-06-09 03:42 pm UTC (link)
so what is the difference between equal rights for blacks and equal rights for gays? you're saying we're not entitled to equal rights because we are "merely" bashed instead of lynched? because our homeless youth are merely kicked out of their homes (and what makes you say they are all in boystown?) and their parents were not suffering from endemic poverty? because merely being fired at our jobs because of being gay and losing our livelihoods is not cause for equal rights because we are not "persistently discriminated economically"?

you are right, we have not suffered as much as the blacks. our fight is in a different time, scenario. the blacks in Europe and Canada weren't enslaved either, but do they deserve less rights than the blacks in America? but our CAUSE is the SAME. that is the point of comparison.

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[info]go_wade_in
2004-06-09 03:54 pm UTC (link)
i'm going to add that women, jews, other minorities didn't get lynched, enslaved, etc. either but they have their equal rights. african-americans that came after slavery was abolished weren't enslaved but they have their equal rights.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]nomilkplease
2004-06-09 04:43 pm UTC (link)
Thanks for your comments.

I think that if I were to do a "black people have this discrimination" and "gay people have this discrimination", we would be discussing this forever. I could give you one for one of the discriminations, injustices and violence that gay people face. They may not be the same, but no less serious.

The point here is this: to compare individual discriminations is not what the comparison is all about. In fact, when I hear these statements made by gay people, I never thought that the meaning is that gay people have suffered the same way black people have suffered. The only people I hear who are outraged by the comparison seem to be those who want to compare discrimination by discrimination, as if one discrimination can be greater than the other. The way I see it, when you are the one being discriminated against, nobody else's experience can compare to your own suffering.

The comparison is that this is a struggle for equal rights. And in this comparison, I also draw on the struggles of those who are women, differently abled, all other minorities who face discrimination. I will freely compare our struggles with these other groups. This is because discrimination is discrimination. Prejudice is prejudice.

As I said, I am not comparing the specific experiences. I am only listing what I know of the "gay experience". People can make their own judgements on whether they are the "same" or not. In fact, by the way I wrote this post, I am specifically drawing no comparison between experiences. I only draw this picture for you to decide for yourself whether or not there is discrimination.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Response
[info]sparkyjames
2004-06-10 08:27 pm UTC (link)
Paul, once again you did a great job. Unfortunately, not everyone will ever be pleased. You made the point well. I did not choose to be gay. Sometimes I even wish I wasn't (though that gets better with time). I think you are a great guy whom people seem to listen to. Keep up the good work. SPARKY

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Chicago high school kid
[info]charlessfo
2006-06-18 06:11 am UTC (link)
That was a really sad story. Thanks for linking to it.

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Re: Chicago high school kid
[info]nomilkplease
2006-06-18 07:39 pm UTC (link)
thanks man, more power to ya!

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