12 August 2004 @ 02:36 pm
Yet Another Post on the 'Write What You Know" dealie-O  
I'm writing yet again in response to someone's post on the sex and write-what-you-know discussion, this time in reply to Trollprincess, and for the same reason -- it got long, and this might be of general interest. The question/comment that spurred it, with regard to describing a first time experience of coitus (that's fancy-speak for intercourse) ... "(Although if anybody wants to describe the sensations a little better ... yeah, virgin here.)"

Sure, I'm willing to take that on. I'm shameless. So, prepared with an eye to writing description for those who haven't 'been there' for reasons of gender, choice, or opportunity .... Possible NC-17 TMI will follow beneath the cut, but it's 'clinical' NC-17 TMI. (g) Don't expect some titilating description of my first experience. ;> (And anyone else who wants to jump in and add to what's here, feel free. Matrons Unite! LOL!)


The amount of discomfort or outright pain really depends not just on her state of mind (and arousal), but also on the physical size of the girl's vagina -- and that's not necessarily related to the width of her hips or her height. Tall or large women may still have a small passage. Human anatomy is funny like that. (Need I also explain that it would depend on the size of the guy's phallus, too?)

I think the main sensation experienced is a burning stretch. That's what I find inexperienced writers most commonly leaving out, and can separate the maidens from the matrons. (This assumes, of course, that there's an attempt to write realistic sex in the first place -- sometimes there isn't, even with matron writers. But that's a completely different discussion.)

Personally inexperienced writers may think to put in the breaking of the hymen, but they miss the stretching burn and assume everything's peachy after the hymen breaks. Nope. In fact, the burning sensation can completely overshadow the tearing of the hymen, which is sharp and brief. The burning is present through most if not all of the first encounter, AND may be (often is) present -- lessening gradually -- during subsequent encounters until the vaginal passage has been suitably stretched to accomodate an erect male penis. How long that takes depends on factors from the physical to the psychological.

Yes, the vagina is made to stretch wide enough to accomodate a child's head (albeit with tearing), but it has to BE stretched. Some virgin girls find even a tampon too wide to be comfortable. Girls can actually work at this in advance by using their (properly lubricated) fingers (or other approved and safe 'toys') to gradually widen the passage, so it'll hurt less. I'm not big on prudery, notice. ;> I see nothing wrong with the idea of prepping one's self. Why make it harder when it doesn't need to be? (No pun intended)

(And if that 'tearing' crack make you wince ...? Yup, sorry, it's true; when the baby's head comes out, it often involves some tearing of the vaginal opening. ANY story that has a mother who recently gave birth hopping into bed was written by an author who knows jack shit. It usually takes a couple weeks to heal, and even then, it's tender. No sex for a month or two at least, sorry, and lots of sitting on 'doughnuts' and pillows -- and stairs? Ow, ow, ow.)

There may be a sharp pain of greater or lesser intensity when the hymen membrain is actually broken, but that depends on whether it's fully intact or has been partly torn previously -- and how extensive it is. The form the membrain takes can range from practically covering the whole opening (rare) to covering just a little. Likewise, while most are pretty thin, some can be remarkably tough, and there ARE cases of girls having had intercourse, even repeated intercourse, with an intact hymen. Furthermore, the membrain can be partly or fully torn in a variety of other ways, ranging from tampon use to pelvic exams (pap smears), to riding a horse or doing gymnastics. Thus, how much it hurts when torn during intercourse can vary a lot. There will often be a little blood. (A couple thimbles-worth, like cutting a finger.)

Again, the main adjustment is to the width of the male member. For sex, what often gets in the way is the stress and anxiety involved in trying a new thing (and the knowledge/anticipation that it will hurt). So even if a woman is fully aroused, or even if the decision to "do it" is spur of the moment with no lengthy time for anxiety to develop, all it takes is a second or two for arousal to become complicated by anxiety. In short, the time needed for him to raise his hips and position himself (and find the damn opening). Then if there's pain (and there almost always is), the woman might CLENCH in response -- which just makes it hurt worse.

This CAN, in some cases, create a really nasty cycle. Sex hurts, she clenches in anticipation, so -- wow! -- it hurts more. Knowing this is going on does not necessarily mean the woman can magically stop it from happening. It's partly instinct and takes retraining, which also takes patience (and love and trust) on the part of both parties. Most women don't necessarily spin into that cycle, but more DO, at least temporarily, than is commonly realized. Because of the way intercourse works, the RIGHT parts of the woman are not getting as stimulated by penetration as they were beforehand, unless the guy really knows what he's doing. So all of a sudden his stimulation goes way UP, while hers drops off and includes some pretty *ouchy* things. As a result, her arousal may well disappear completely and she's just waiting for him to get DONE already. ;>

This is not related to frigidity. A woman may have trouble in intercourse while enjoying other forms of sexual expression immensely. 'Sex' does not equal 'intercourse,' after all. One way to help prevent this cycle is to pause for a bit after penetration. This does two good things. First, it allows the woman a moment or so to relax and unclench, and it allows the man the same thing, keeping him from coming instantly -- especially if he's also a virgin or hasn't had sex in a while. The sensation of penetration is pretty damn intense, so unfortunately, many inexperienced boys only take a thrust or two and that's all she wrote, and the poor girl never gets any chance to adjust. Incidently, the use of a condom helps slow this down, and some condoms are designed for that. Safe sex has it's merits. ;> And (good) sex takes practice.

Other sensations include the legs being pushed open at an odd (for many) angle, so there's a 'looseness' or soreness to the joints afterwards (especially if he's on top or the sex goes on for very long). Furthermore, even after the penis leaves the vaginal opening, she'll be sore. Taking a long, romantic walk immediately after ain't advised. ;>

I'd like to add that there often IS a whole psychological element running alongside the physical. Thus, first intercourse may still be a satisfying experience for a woman even if she doesn't come. Although, guys, that's NOT an excuse for not trying to be sure she enjoys herself. A hint for the inexperienced woman and her man -- let her have her orgasm before attempting intercourse. Otherwise, she very well might not have one at all. (There are exceptions to everything, of course.)

A final point to make ... there's often a bit of fumbling involved to get the penis positioned properly for penetration. This is true even for couples who've had lots of practice. It really doesn't just 'slide into place.' Involves a little poking, and sometimes you miss! LOL! And sometimes the thing falls out, too, after a couple thrusts, depending on position and 'vigor.' This can be horribly embarrasing for the guy and gal ... or they can laugh about it (I recommend the latter (g)).

And don't forget the bodily fluids. Even if your guy is wearing a condom, an aroused woman can secrete a lot of lubrication, especially a younger woman and/or one who's been in a state of arousal for a while. And it smells. I don't think men's semen smells nearly as much as women's lubrication, which is, well, kinda like fish, if a bit muskier. But the point is that, after sex, people really DO need to clean up. If you're blind drunk, you might not care, or if you're too exhausted and there's a trashcan (or sock) handy, the guy can pull off the condom or wipe off, roll over and go to sleep. But the lady will probably need a little (or a lot) of toilet paper. ;> (Especially if blood is involved from a broken hymen. It's not a lot of blood, but blood stains.)

You know, when you think about it, sex is a pretty funny activity. If it didn't feel so damn good, who'd have come up with something like that anyway?

(Which only convinces me that the Creator has a real sense of humor.)

ETA: I don't very often deliberately plug a story so much as announce it's available, but I'm gonna this time: "101 (and not Dalmatians)," for a humorous look at sex, real life, and overdramatization. It's written from a male POV, not a female ... but that itself was an exercise in 'write what you know' not necessarily what you've experienced. ;>
 
 
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Madox[info]alchemy_gryph on August 12th, 2004 03:34 pm (UTC)
Whee, first comment (though there's more to be written both here and on your other post later) as I sit dawdling in front of a computer waiting for the office to close.

Mom (walking past on her way to phone more patients): Allie, why are you blushing?

- Madox
Minisinoo: Dani[info]minisinoo on August 12th, 2004 03:41 pm (UTC)
Hey, I'm an NDN woman; I'm frank. What can I say? LOL!
twistedchick[info]twistedchick on August 12th, 2004 03:50 pm (UTC)
(I think you meant pelvic exams, not pectoral exams. Right?)

otherwise, excellent.
Minisinoo: laughing[info]minisinoo on August 12th, 2004 04:00 pm (UTC)
LOL! Yup. Thanks for the correction. Will edit. (That's a FUNNY one, given that I read over this three times before posting.)
Mara[info]marag on August 12th, 2004 04:39 pm (UTC)
Thank you thank you for mentioning the cleanup! I'm sure it often gets left out on purpose, but for some reason it peeves me. There's blood the first time and, ahem, other fluids if you're not using a condom. But nobody ever mentions the woman needing to clean up, it seems.
Minisinoo: phoenix[info]minisinoo on August 12th, 2004 05:23 pm (UTC)
I KNOW. That bugs me, too. Sometimes one ends the scene before that, but there's a certain humor to be had in the cleanup, if that's what one's aiming for. (And I find sex a rather funny, if fun, thing, so I never mind a little humor.)
(no subject) - [info]marag on August 12th, 2004 05:26 pm (UTC) Expand
Alia[info]shadowkate on August 12th, 2004 04:39 pm (UTC)
This was a good discription. Reminded me, ALOT, of what happened my first time. Some of that stuff we still do, including the waiting for a couple of moments after penetration.

More over, sex is just about the funniest thing couples can do together. We often wind up laughing during it, which only makes it better ;-)
Minisinoo: laughing[info]minisinoo on August 12th, 2004 05:24 pm (UTC)
Laughter during sex is a highly underrated activity. ;>
(no subject) - [info]limegreen_sloth on August 13th, 2004 07:52 pm (UTC) Expand
The Divine Goat: bill[info]thedivinegoat on August 12th, 2004 06:18 pm (UTC)
You know, this should be required reading for all new writers about to embark on first-time smut. And some more established writers.

My first time, I actually uttered the words "Is it in yet?", after the pain I had no sensations for a few minutes, and was surprised I couldn't feel anything. Today this day I pray he was too involved (it was his first time too), to hear/register what I said.

Yup, sorry, it's true; when the baby's head comes out, it often involves some tearing of the vaginal opening. ANY story that has a mother who recently gave birth hoping into bed was written by an author who knows jack shit. It usually takes a couple weeks to heal, and even then, it's tender. No sex for a month or two at least, sorry, and lots of sitting on 'doughnuts' and pillows -- and stairs? Ow, ow, ow.

First labour - episiotimy (sp?) and first degree tear. Second labour - second degree tear that had to be stitched twice. Yeah. Sex took about four months this time.

(Inaccurately written sex scene just amuse me. Inaccurately written labour scenes offend me.)
Minisinoo: Jean & Scully (Aeolus)[info]minisinoo on August 12th, 2004 07:55 pm (UTC)
(blush) Thanks. And LOL! at the "Is it in yet?"

As I've told my husband before, there is far less specific sensation down there than men think/fear. I have yet, after 18+ years, to be able to feel it internally when he actually comes, so all the smut that has her feel his "spurting cum" just crack me up. Maybe some women do, but I sure don't. 8}

I got really lucky with my son. He was over 9lbs, too, and I'm not a big woman, but I still had only a #1 tear, and no episiotomy. Bless his heart, my OB had worked with midwives, and knew exactly what he was doing. He finessed that baby out. I was still using witch hazel and sitting on doughnuts for over two weeks. 8} Even the *thought* of sticking ANYthing up there would have made me howl in fury. LOL!
Anne-Cara: lydia[info]golden_d on August 12th, 2004 06:58 pm (UTC)
You know, I think I'm going to have to stick this post in my memories, just in case I ever decide to write coitus. ;) Hehe.
Minisinoo: cool scott[info]minisinoo on August 12th, 2004 07:45 pm (UTC)
LOL!
LadyElaine[info]ladyelaine on August 12th, 2004 07:15 pm (UTC)
I think the main sensation experienced is a burning stretch.

This was very much what I felt my first time. More stretch than burn (which came later, after we were plenty sore). There was no blood my first time, nor was there any sort of sharp pain, so I'm pretty sure I'd lost my hymen at some point earlier in my life, for which I'm quite grateful. Oddly enough though, I do regularly experience very slight bleeding after sex (less than pricking your finger, but there).

Yup, sorry, it's true; when the baby's head comes out, it often involves some tearing of the vaginal opening.

If you ever do a post like this about childbirth, don't forget to put in that first bowel movement after an episiotome. Kinda puts life into perspective.

Other sensations include the legs being pushed open at an odd (for many) angle, so there's a 'looseness' or soreness to the joints afterwards

To this day, I have sore hip sockets after sex.

And don't forget the bodily fluids. Even if your guy is wearing a condom, an aroused woman can secrete a lot of lubrication, especially a younger woman and/or one who's been in a state of arousal for a while. And it smells.

Yes, yes, yes. But the amount of fluid and the strength of the odor depend on the time of the month, too. As for cleaning up, think box of kleenex on the bedside table. I read stories where the couple falls asleep afterwards, and I can't help thinking how icky and smelly they're gonna be when they wake up. Not to mention the mattress, which is rather harder to wash than sheets.

You know, when you think about it, sex is a pretty funny activity. If it didn't feel so damn good, who'd have come up with something like that anyway?

Two words: Chest farts.
(no subject) - [info]minisinoo on August 12th, 2004 08:08 pm (UTC) Expand
Maria the Lost[info]mariagoner on August 13th, 2004 02:29 am (UTC)
>>Personally inexperienced writers may think to put in the breaking of the hymen, but they miss the stretching burn and assume everything's peachy after the hymen breaks. Nope. In fact, the burning sensation can completely overshadow the tearing of the hymen, which is sharp and brief. The burning is present through most if not all of the first encounter, AND may be (often is) present -- lessening gradually -- during subsequent encounters until the vaginal passage has been suitably stretched to accomodate an erect male penis. How long that takes depends on factors from the physical to the psychological.

Eeek! If I didn't already know that sex eventually gets better, you'd have scared me off of it forever! :D

But really, this is one of best (and most useful!) posts on writing (and real life) I've come across so far. Definitely going into my memories imediately.
(no subject) - [info]mariagoner on August 13th, 2004 02:33 am (UTC) Expand
Not in my experience, no - [info]redhawk on August 13th, 2004 08:15 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Not in my experience, no - [info]minisinoo on August 13th, 2004 12:46 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]uknosila on August 13th, 2004 10:41 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]minisinoo on August 13th, 2004 12:44 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]minisinoo on August 14th, 2004 11:16 am (UTC) Expand
[info]directormll on August 13th, 2004 06:42 am (UTC)
great post
Great post, Min. Gave me a chuckle and some memories. Pretty accurate. When ever I read any sex scene that has a virgin being so transported that she feels no pain and has multiple orgasms, I immediately think, what planet is this author living on! LOL
I do feel that there should be more "truth in advertising" in how sex scenes are written. Not only for more accurate information, but because, in my opinion, you know if someone is right for you if you are comfortable cleaning up with them after wards!
Re: great post - [info]minisinoo on August 13th, 2004 09:37 am (UTC) Expand
Re: great post - [info]directormll on August 13th, 2004 10:43 am (UTC) Expand
Re: great post - [info]dawnkiller on August 13th, 2004 12:23 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: great post - [info]minisinoo on August 13th, 2004 12:46 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: great post - [info]directormll on August 13th, 2004 12:51 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: great post - [info]dawnkiller on August 14th, 2004 08:01 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: great post - [info]directormll on August 16th, 2004 06:13 am (UTC) Expand
(Anonymous) on August 13th, 2004 08:09 am (UTC)
Priceless
Dearest Min,

As a homosexual male, I have to say that this was enlightening (because of what I 'didn't' know - literally speaking), but also because it was approached freshly.

Can certainly relate to the 'clean-up' crew comment, I can say given my experiences gay men would certainly benefit from exposure to this information. Lord knows the more we can relate to our girlfriends, and find the humour in sexual activity the better. Lord knows not all gay guys penetrate properly (those who engage that is) and could learn a thing a two.

Purchasing latex condoms for safe sex $25.00
Purchasing sparkling champagne for romantic dinner $150.00
Min's comments about sexual intercourse: Priceless. *g*

Regards,
Phil (Australia)
Re: Priceless - [info]minisinoo on August 13th, 2004 12:49 pm (UTC) Expand
The gay perspective (may contain graphic material) - (Anonymous) on August 14th, 2004 10:01 am (UTC) Expand
Nosila[info]uknosila on August 13th, 2004 10:32 am (UTC)
In short, the time needed for him to raise his hips and position himself (and find the damn opening).

That's the bit the stories never mention! The getting it in in the first place!
(no subject) - [info]minisinoo on August 13th, 2004 12:50 pm (UTC) Expand
Firebird: Storm[info]firebird308 on August 13th, 2004 10:53 am (UTC)
I think the main sensation experienced is a burning stretch.

At the time, I was not capable to figuring out what that was. I was kind of busy beng "OwowowOWPAIN!" at the time. (As by then boyfriend, now ex neglected to stay still for a couple of minutes so I could have time to adjust. >_<)
Lateo[info]lateo on August 13th, 2004 02:05 pm (UTC)
Good one
Good entry Min.
A thing that always gets me is the forplay in some virgen fics or the lack thereof. Excample: male put finger/fingers in unprepared female and she is instantly aroused. Don't even get me started on locating the clitoris...that one brings forth memories of the past. no one mentions when the girl is silently thinking (young me) "How hard can it be!" (no pun intended)
Pouncer: Flapper Profile by Tangleofthorns[info]thepouncer on August 13th, 2004 10:06 pm (UTC)
Also with regard to cleanup, women are prone to urinary tract infections. My doctor told me, after my first one, to always use the toilet after sex, which clears out any potential bacteria. I never want another UTI again, ever.

And yes to burning stretch and discomfort for first time. Still mind-blowing, though.
Tasha: bobby[info]tasha87 on August 14th, 2004 10:49 am (UTC)
I think I can say with perfect honesty, that you've scared me a little....
(no subject) - [info]minisinoo on August 14th, 2004 11:15 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]crystaldesire on August 14th, 2004 09:56 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]minisinoo on August 15th, 2004 12:30 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]tasha87 on August 15th, 2004 11:39 am (UTC) Expand
Independant Girl[info]kelaina on August 22nd, 2004 04:28 pm (UTC)
This is a really good topic. It covered a bunch of stuff I honestly didn't think about, either during writing sex scenes, or during my first time. *Thinks about exactly how many times she's had sex* Damn.

Let me be honest here, and see if you more expierenced women could help. I've had sex exactly four times in my life. All with the same partner. I don't find sex that great. It's something I could take or leave, honestly.
What should I do? BTW...no longer with that particular guy.

As for the burning/stretch thing...what I actually felt was a stretching muscle cramp, not really a burn. But I was kind of like "Ow, ow, ow, THIS HURTS!" so maybe I'm remembering wrong.

Thanks for the help.
(no subject) - [info]minisinoo on August 25th, 2004 09:40 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]kelaina on September 11th, 2004 10:11 am (UTC) Expand
Hermione "Queen Of The Anal Retentives" Granger: psyche ~foxglove_icons[info]scribbling_elf on August 28th, 2004 04:21 pm (UTC)
Well, suddenly the prospect of being a virgin for life doesn't looks so bad. This was far more effective than my pathetic excuse for an abstinence-only sex ed class, or the hour long abstinence assemblies I had back in high school. This works like a mental chastity belt. ;-)

*remembers how painful putting in tampons can be and quakes in fear*
(no subject) - [info]onomatopoetry on February 20th, 2008 04:05 am (UTC) Expand
cathexys[info]cathexys on November 22nd, 2004 04:33 pm (UTC)
hey, i came to your lj via ithiliana's link on virgule and have been memorying like crazy from your links list...you have so many wonderful essays (and i hope you won't mind if i link to some of them on the virgule metapost list). i've seen your name before but somehow i don't think i've looked around your journal (b/c i sure would remember the great posts!!!)

anyway...along the tmi lines. my first time i actually ended up in the emergency room. yes, me and sylvia plath. i have no idea what happened, how clumsy we were or whether being drunk just made me not realize how much was wrong...irony was, i was getting stitched up and the nurse told me that it wasn't a big deal...just like any episiotomy..heck, this was first time sex...how in the world would i know about episiotomies :-)

[not sure why i felt the need to share other than the fact that it goes along the simple sex descriptions...yes, for some it is real easy and not a big deal...and for others it ends up in the ER...]
(no subject) - [info]minisinoo on November 23rd, 2004 01:04 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]cathexys on November 23rd, 2004 10:14 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]minisinoo on November 23rd, 2004 11:28 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]minisinoo on November 23rd, 2004 11:32 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]minisinoo on November 23rd, 2004 01:18 am (UTC) Expand
Nakki: Shat Happens[info]nakki on May 5th, 2005 10:29 pm (UTC)
You see, this is why I love your writing so much, because you make sex realistic when you write it! I was so misinformed the first time I had sex that it was absolutely one of the worst experiences of my life. So not fun at all >.< But that's probably why I tend to right unhappy sex in myfics >> That's pretty much all I know (especially since I haven't bothered having sex with a guy since that first time.) Sex ed and stories always hype the breaking of the hymen, but they always seem to forget the whole shoving of something that is quite large into a tight, but somewhat stretchy passage way >.< Bleergh.
(no subject) - [info]minisinoo on May 5th, 2005 11:37 pm (UTC) Expand