Limyaael ([info]limyaael) wrote,
@ 2005-10-06 20:06:00
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Current mood: crazy
Entry tags:conlangs, fantasy rants: autumn 2005

Conlang rant- worldbuilding
The last of the conlang rants, on more general ideas when coming up with specific languages in fantasy worlds.



1) “Your language will breed a mythology.” That’s a quote from Tolkien, and with him it was obviously spectacularly true (though a lot of people didn’t believe him when he said that Middle-earth was mainly a home for his Elvish languages), but that doesn’t mean it can’t be true for other people.

Stuck on worldbuilding? Wander over and look at some of the words that your conlang using, especially the ones that are sacred/mysterious/powerful. Could they possibly refer to gods? To legendary heroes? Does a name that you’re worried about because it isn’t typical of that language’s culture actually belong to somebody special and important at the beginning of history, so it got passed down even as other names contemporary with it changed and fell out of favor? Does a place name hold records of an ancient event?

Of course, you can do this the other way around, too. The name of the god Pan gave us panic, the overwhelming, all-consuming fear that Pan was said to inspire. Names of gods and demigods and mystical mortals went to planets and moons (Mercury and Europa), to months (January, from Janus), to days of the week (Wednesday, from Wotan, or Odin). Tons of American places were named after reigning European Kings and Queens (Virginia, Louisville, Carolina). Places earn a certain reputation and get mythologized (Arcadia was originally part of Greece, but most people know it now for the literary and mythological ideas it’s inspired, especially terms like the arcadian pastoral and Et in Arcadia ego).

Don’t think that the only possible use of language in worldbuilding is to fill out linguistic history. It can help you with plenty of other things.

2) There is a place for mystical, untranslatable terms. What I wanted to say in the other rant was simply that the language should not be solely those, while missing all the words that you need to hold a regular conversation.

Most languages have certain phrases and concepts that it’s hard to translate, maybe impossible. What are those in your conlang? They don’t have to all be at a grand and exalted level of importance. An exclamation of disgust could hold a force that the person who makes it will never be able to explain to someone speaking a different language, because that culture doesn’t find the idea of menstrual blood gross, or find anything blasphemous about referring to a god’s body parts. (It can tell you a lot about a culture/conlang to know what their profanity refers to).

Other interesting ideas for this category are:

-specific religious concepts. Someone who accepts the idea of bodily resurrection as fact, embodied in the word atero, may falter when trying to explain it to someone who does not. At the very least, she’ll have to use more words.
-political/social systems. If someone is a dhavilot to his people, someone to be honored and adored, but a tyrant to outsiders, those outsiders are going to have a hard time understanding why his people don’t rebel.
-features common to that culture’s landscape, but which don’t occur elsewhere. Someone who lives in a desert may tell a story in which she unthinkingly differentiates between edsle dunes and tirimit dunes. She’ll need to explain them when someone from the jungle stares at her blankly, though.
-divisions of space, time, and events that occur in one language and not another. For example, the English language has many, many more terms describing what the male body does during sex than what the female body does. It has a word for lap; many other languages don’t. Perhaps your imagined culture calls the night before a wedding happens okaleo and honors it, while the culture a few valleys away focuses all its energy on the wedding itself, and the wedding night.

3) Language does not eliminate the capacity for thought. I made this point in the comments on the other rants; I’m going to make it again here. Language certainly influences culture. It can be used to trace back cultural movements and moments, so that we can know (or know with some questions left) where the original Indo-European speakers lived before they began their migration. It can make communication across boundaries difficult and bewildering.

That does not mean that it acts like a straitjacket on someone’s view of reality, and if I hear one more person reference Newspeak, I will go ballistic.

Newspeak would have failed. It certainly could have influenced its speakers’ thoughts and probably dumbed down their culture, but people do think outside of language, and someone who had never encountered the concept of political freedom would not be incapable of understanding it if she learned another language that had it.

That applies to fantasy, too. I see it most often with all the variants of an elven language—that elven language is just so pure and wonderful that mere mortals are incapable of understanding it except on a superficial level, and elven culture is the same way.

[cracks knuckles]

Look, I’ll buy that different species may be incapable of fully participating in each other’s languages. (See point 4). But insisting that a human can’t understand the reverence that goes into the elven word for “rock,” even when it’s explained to her, is just another instance of saying that elves are superior to humans, let us all worship them, they will be the humans’ guide into the light, anyone who’s allergic to iron is clearly our lord and master. More often, the elf doesn’t even bother to explain; he just sighs and closes his eyes, and “Kayli was left with the unsettling feeling that she had disappointed him, though she didn’t know why.”

If you’re going to insist that some differences are impassable, and rest on differences in species more than language, then apply it right the other way fucking ‘round. That means that elves should be incapable of understanding some things about human culture and language—and not always the bad things, like the human desire to conquer, or the word that means “murder.” Perhaps they can’t understand the local human concept of honor. Be fair. One species shouldn’t be confined within its language while the others are able to learn them all and tsk at the clearly inferior beings in their midst who don’t know that you put the z before the e when you’re referencing the queen, and can’t learn it, either.

4) Some nuances can come from nonhuman features. Here’s a good way to put the ubiquitous elven pointy ear to work for once. Perhaps they add depth or emotional content or nuance to their words by moving their ears. It could be as simple as flattening the ears to the head when angry or frightened, as wolves do, or as complicated as moving both ears to the right to ask a question.

Of course, do that and you immediately trot headlong into some problems with writing and distance communication—is it impossible for an elf calling out to another through the forest to ask questions unless he can see him?—but it’s an example of a solution if you really, really want it to be difficult for one species or race to learn another’s language. In writing, diacritical marks or specialized modes of emphasis on certain parts of the words may indicate “Ear-flap here.” For distance communication, especially in, say, times of battle when such communication would need to be rapid, perhaps certain words pick up the function of the ear movements.

There’s other, non-visual ways, most of which I’ve seen used at some point. People with tails flick them. Insects loose scents. Unicorns play music on their horns that complements the words they’ve just spoken. Dwarves use signals tapped on stones. Elves cut marks in trees, or have complicated sign languages due to their hands being more swift and dexterous than a human’s. Dragons flap their wings, or breathe their fire in certain patterns.

Interestingly, these systems are most often accents to, or paler imitations of, the full spoken language—so the humans may miss some emotional nuance, or the dwarves may use the tapping on the stones for very limited signaling, but most everybody will still speak in the way that the humans are accustomed to. It’s nothing at all like the difficulty that a human experiences when trying to talk to a dolphin, or decipher the song of a humpback whale. Sometimes it’s reduced to no more than a few cutesy gestures, as if the whole nonhuman culture had only three means of expressing emotions with distinctly nonhuman bodies.

Play around with this idea. I’d like to see a story where a human, due to his poor sense of smell and lack of experience at watching ears and tails, missed a large and important part of the werewolves’ conversation—the same way I’d like to see one where a mute human had to really work to get his point across.

5) Have fun with expressions. Fantasy authors seem to get all uptight about this. I cannot count the number of debates I’ve seen about what slang expressions to use, whether “fuck” is all right when you’re writing about a society that does not speak English, whether someone who lives in a desert really would say “Right as rain,” and so on.

I say:

a) Relax.
b) Take a load off.
c) Come up with creative solutions to this instead of angsting about the limitations.

Yes, some invented fantasy expressions are really, reallystupid. (I stopped reading The Glass Dragon partially because the characters would not stop saying “S’murgh!”) That doesn’t mean they all are, nor that, with practice, they won’t become easy and familiar on your tongue.

Want a historical one? Go and look at what the slangy and profane expressions were in English five hundred years ago, six hundred years ago. Or look at the language of the culture you’re basing your story culture on. You may be able to pick out patterns, and if you can’t use the exact same ones, at least you might know what that particular culture considers wonderful, foul, shocking, obscene, or interesting.

Want an untranslated one? Come up with a word that sounds appropriately nasty. S’murgh didn’t work for me because of That Fucking Apostrophe, because I had no idea how to pronounce it even without That Fucking Apostrophe, and because it was stuck into all sorts of sayings it had no business being stuck into, like “S’murgh you!” But, once you know your conlang’s sound system (and you know it, right?) you can know what kinds of sounds its speakers might find distasteful when crammed together, or when pronounced in particular combinations. Then invent your own sentence structure and way of saying it. Try to use it too much like “Fuck” or “Shit,” as in “Shenz off!” or “Walls smeared with shenz,” and I’m going to start wondering why you didn’t just use that other word you’re so obviously enamored of.

Want it to be topical? A certain joke might be scandalous in a certain circle for a while, and then wither and die when the event that spawned it becomes old news. If an expression is currently popular or unpopular in the halls of power, then you can comment on the character using it at the same time he uses it. Perhaps he’s a social climber, or doing it to show he doesn’t give a damn, or it’s a sign of his sorry lack of education.

Want to use a familiar word? Then use a familiar word. I use “fuck” as a crude word referring to sex—and only that—in several of my stories, because the villains are the sort of people who would say that, or I really want my heroes to be able to say, “And now tell me your theory of fucking.” With limited use, and as long as the writer doesn’t seem overly fond of making her characters sound like they came from Pulp Fiction, I think it can work.



And that is the last of the conlang rants. Next up: keeping static worlds plausible, and then a poll.




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[info]sythyry
2005-10-07 12:17 am UTC (link)
We've got a word, which we transliterate as "dashitzie". It has no actual denotation; it simply makes the phrase involving it obscene. This fits the stereotypical personality of one of our species quite nicely.

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[info]limyaael
2005-10-08 05:49 pm UTC (link)
I have dummy words like that in Aril, where, say, "daa" at the beginning of a sentence shows bored irritation, even if the sentence itself is something perfectly innocent. "Daa omalchun edco" turns it from "We will eat with them" to "Oh, gods, we have to eat with them? Ew, how boring."

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[info]kailita
2005-10-07 12:38 am UTC (link)
Thank you so much for these rants. I discovered you around...oh, it was probably March-ish...and I was so enamoured of your thoughts and helpful hints on fantasy writing that I went back and read all of your rants from the very beginning. I am finally caught up to the present, and I must say that these conlang rants have definitely been some of my favorites. I ADORE linguistics and fantasy languages. ^.^ Anyway, I just wanted to poke my head in and say hello and thank you - and pose one short question for you that has been bothering me for quite a while: How do you pronounce "Limyaael"? ^.~

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[info]almeda
2005-10-08 04:55 am UTC (link)
I say it 'lim-YALE,' in my head, but it could as easily go on Hawaiian phoneme rules and be 'lim-YA-ah-ell', I suppose.

[info]matociquala is a jawbuster, too. :-> (for the record, I stand by 'mah-TOE-see-KWAH-la', myself, secure in my total lack of evidence as to how she says it. Rather as I refuse to agree with Anne McCaffrey's 'official' pronunciation of Menolly's name).

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[info]limyaael
2005-10-08 05:51 pm UTC (link)
*grin* Glad they're helping. I enjoy fantasy languages as well, courtesy of reading Tolkien way too young.

My username is a product of another of my created languages, and is said "leem-yah-ALE." Limya is "laughter," and ael is "lady."

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[info]sligking
2005-10-07 01:09 am UTC (link)
Your dunes example in #2 reminded me a lot of Hawaii. In Hawaii you have Pa'Hoihoi and A'A and to an outsider, both are basalt lava fields.

Amen to number three. When people write a person being able to comprehend something outside their langauge, BS. An idea being outside your own langage doesn't stop you from thinking something, it just makes it hard to express. In my current RPing group we even have one character, that if most perceptions of #2 were true, couldn't understand anything becausew, horror of horrors, it has no spoken language.

I kind of laughed at number five. Swap out the ' for i in S'murgh and you have a persian/indian (I forget which) god bird. I get this vision of a samurai warrior yelling Phoenix YOU! at the top of his lungs.

Crap, have to go.

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[info]limyaael
2005-10-08 05:53 pm UTC (link)
The person being unable to comprehend something outside their language bothers me even more than usual because I recently read an amateur story in which the white-skinned outsider knew perfectly well what the black-skinned natives' language meant, but they were incapable of understanding his. That kind of subconscious racism is just...gah.

*snicker* Admittedly, if I had known how close S'murgh came to Phoenix, then I might have enjoyed reading that book more.

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[info]hellga
2005-10-07 03:15 am UTC (link)
Just a general comment. It's a lot easier to make up a language if you know more than one or two languages. You can take the features of different languages and combine them the way you like the best. Monolingual writers just don't have an idea of the possibilites...

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[info]limyaael
2005-10-08 05:53 pm UTC (link)
True. Unfortunately, the ones I know best are all pretty closely related to each other (English, Spanish, Latin), but even just looking around Finnish gives me some different ideas.

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[info]jerrylovesmona
2006-02-08 02:01 am UTC (link)
That's because Finnish is cool.

Of course, I'm a bit of a fanatic for Ural-Altaic languages.

I'd recommend that anyone trying to make up a language know at least one SVO language and at least one SOV language. I use English, Korean, and German as my models.

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[info]criada
2005-10-07 06:40 am UTC (link)
The other day I read a series of lectures by Freeman Dyson. At one point he mentioned someone he knew who spoke Japanese so well, he made his Japanese associates nervous. The thought that an outsider could fit into their system so well bugged the heck out of them.
Also, out of curiosity, I just went looking up foreign profanities and found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_curse_words

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[info]limyaael
2005-10-08 05:53 pm UTC (link)
That list is priceless. Thank you for finding it!

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[info]reinderrocr
2005-10-07 07:58 am UTC (link)
There's a book out, The Meaning of Tingo (link goes to a review in the Independent) which lists non-English words with no obvious translation in English. Some of the words looked right dodgy to me but I investigated (er, Googled) the one Dutch word that kept cropping up in other reviews, and it checked out.

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[info]ankewehner
2005-10-08 02:48 pm UTC (link)
Can't find a link to comment on your blog or whatisit entry, so...
"Zechpreller" is absolutely genuine.
I don't remember hearing "Torschlusspanik" myself, but it's in my dictionary. (It's obviously a football (soccer to some people) reference, and I'm not really interested in sport, which might explain why I never heard it.)
But "Agobilles" is as far as I can tell either from a different language or completely fabricated.

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[info]reinderrocr
2005-10-08 02:58 pm UTC (link)
Agobilles was easily the dodgiest of the three. Looks more like French to me.

Sorry about the lack of comments on my blog. I've been meaning to fix it, and indeed was going to do so today, but I got behind on my work...

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Thanks
[info]hieronymousb
2005-10-07 08:44 am UTC (link)
Thanks for all the language rants. I'm currently building one conlang for my fantasy world, and all the information that you have provided has been vastly helpful. Also, you have prompted me to stop being lazy. I am now actually researching linguistics.

For the record, I don't personally think a fantasy book absolutely HAS to have a language backing the names. As long as an author doesn't go too batshit with their names seemingly just for the hell of it (Reglazaboxxtthazios, or some such), then I probably won't mind. I do think that having an actual conlang or two (or more!) to support your story can certainly be a big assist in making the work aesthetically sound, though.

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Re: Thanks
[info]hieronymousb
2005-10-07 09:03 am UTC (link)
Ooh, thoughts to add about point #5...

I really don't think a fantasy author should get stressed out about this sort of thing. Using a blatantly Earthian expression such as "a dime a dozen" in a world with no dimes would be stupid, or a phrase like "What on Earth?" if we're not on Earth (surprisingly I have seen the former of these things in amateur fantasy). I think some colloquialisms like "right beneath your nose" are not really such a big problem, though.

My concern on point #5 is that I'm either being way too liberal, or I'm being too uptight. I like to write dialect to emphasize that someone is speaking with an accent (sometimes) or mispronouncing things, or slurring their words, but sometimes in the back of my mind I have a voice saying "Isn't it dumb to be writing dialect when this person is not speaking English?" Then of course comes the issue of colloquialisms (something I've become more and more adverse to as the years go by). I begin to wonder "What should be allowed, and what should people roll their eyes at?" This is when I worry that I'm being too uptight. However, NOT feeling that way makes me feel like I'm being too...erm, open to everything. My novels are not medieval fantasy (in fact, they are juxtaposed!), so I tend to have a mixture of elaborate dialogue and more frank, modern speech. Either one leaves me chewing my nails. If I'm too "modern/frank", it seems silly in some ways. If I seem like I'm writing faux Shakespeare, well, hell, that comes off as sounding silly, too.

...Yeah. I agree with your advice about not getting stressed out. Definitely. For me, though, it's easier said than done.

Also, I have NO problem with swear words in fantasy novels. "Fuck" simply conveys a strong, harsh word for sex. Besides, "fuck" leaves an impression.

My problem with a lot of fantasy swear words is that they...well, they lack oomph. “S’murgh!”, for instance, since you mentioned it--it has no "oomph" value. If someone said "S'murgh you!" in the novel, I'd just blink and continue. But if someone said "Fuck you!", it would have an impact. Even though one is writing in a fantasy world, I think you have to choose dialogue which AFFECTS your readers, and why should slang be any different? You wouldn't leave a whole love declaration in its original conlang, because it wouldn't mean anything to your reader. Same for swears, in my opinion. I'm not 100% against the idea of making your own, but it certainly may take a number of chapters/novels to "click" before a reader sees the word and says "Ooh, burned!". Personally, I just stick to "fuck" or "shit" most of the time, if I absolutely want to make a character swear.

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Re: Thanks
[info]bneuensc
2005-10-07 05:24 pm UTC (link)
Frankly, it makes no more sense to me to ask whether "fuck" is all right if the society doesn't speak English than to ask whether "chair" is all right. If you really want to get into the concept that you're writing about a foreign place, then you're translating everything anyway. You might as well translate profanity into its appropriately vulgar English equivalent, so that your reader gets the appropriate effect from it. (Mary Gentle did this explicitly in her Book of Ash quartet.)

I'd only invent swearing if I wanted it to express something culturally distinct about the group, and even then, I'd give it a good hard think before I did it, because so little of the invented profanity I've seen has really felt profane to me. Farscape's "frelling" is a prime example of a word that just sounds too pretty and nice to be vulgar. A contrast would be C. S. Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy, where the characters live on a planet that's horribly seismically active, and use "vulking" (from Vulcan) as a curse. Not only is that culturally fitting, it has the sound of something you'd say when angry.

I tend to put less effort into the profanity, and more into the insults. In one of my societies, you've deeply fucked up if someone says you've betrayed your name. It reflects issues of religion and the meaning and importance of names to one's identity. If they decide you've actually betrayed your name, then you become a non-person, your name is expunged from all records, and no one will ever have any kind of dealings with you ever again.

Hey, Limyaael, has there been a rant on insults yet? <g>

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Re: Thanks
[info]ankewehner
2005-10-08 02:46 pm UTC (link)
I can see how translating cursewords is difficult, mainly for the "cultural differences"-problem limyaael brought up in point 2.
Say, I've got a swearword that has about the emotional impact that "fuck" has in English, but it has nothing to do with sex, but, whatever... it's the name of an extremely annoying species of fish or something. What would you do?

Swearing and culture is a thing indeed. I've heard the German word for "shit" used in a TV show aimed at pre/primary-school kids (admittedly indeed referring to excrements, but from what I've heard that would not be possible in English).

"Frelling" sounds more like a swearword to me than "vulking". "Vulking" sounds to me more like someone with an accent trying to say "walking" ;)

I agree wholeheartedly that insults must reflect the culture they'e used in.

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Re: Thanks
[info]bneuensc
2005-10-09 03:35 pm UTC (link)
Personally, I'd go with "fuck," unless I had some reason to make a point about fish or the lack of stigma associated with sex. Otherwise, it just tends to seem cutesy and artificial. I can say all I want about how that species of fish is just unacceptable to mention in daily conversation among these people, but the fact remains that it'll just be some piece of gibberish to the reader, lacking the vulgar connotation it has for the characters. Very few authors have managed to sell me on the instantaneous reaction to something invented as being profane.

Part of my issue with "frelling" is that, from what I've seen of Farscape, it is not (as "fucking" is, which it appears to be a replacement for) a vulgar word for sexual activity; in fact, it doesn't appear to have any denotative meaning at all. Maybe it does, and I just haven't seen enough of the show, but it appears to be nothing more or less than a code substituted in for a word they can't use without running into censorship problems. Which means it's completely lacking in cultural implication (a common topic in this discussion). It also doesn't make much sense with the translator microbes, which translate everything other than profanity and proper nouns into terms Crichton can recognize. I understand the purpose of the conceit in terms of allowing the characters to swear without getting booted off the air, but all of that stacked on top of the fact that it sounds way too pretty to me, and it just doesn't work for me as invented profanity.

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Re: Thanks
[info]ravenclaw_devi
2005-10-09 09:50 am UTC (link)
Frankly, it makes no more sense to me to ask whether "fuck" is all right if the society doesn't speak English than to ask whether "chair" is all right.

Well... depends on the society. Would a species that doesn't reproduce sexually still use (a direct equivalent of) "fuck" as a swearword? Or even a species that doesn't associate sex with aggression?

I mean, the reason "Fuck you!" is being used as an insult in our culture is because being able to fuck someone is seen as a measure of dominance. In a culture where gender equality has been practiced for ages and rape - or any sex that isn't loving sex - is unheard of, saying "fuck you" would make no sense.

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Re: Thanks
[info]bneuensc
2005-10-09 03:27 pm UTC (link)
Then the issue isn't whether "fuck" is all right if the society doesn't speak English; it's whether "fuck" is all right if the society doesn't view sexual activity as a suitable topic for profanity. There is a difference.

Past that, there's a secondary issue, which is what you're trying to convey with your use of profanity. If you distinctly want to make a point about the culture of the character who's speaking, then coming up with something with different logic behind it than our own sexual/scatological/blasphemous triumvirate of profanity themes is fine. It probably won't come across to the reader as all that vulgar, though. If the shock force is the point -- the sense that the character is really angry or upset -- then maybe you're better off just sticking with what we're culturally conditioned to hear as vulgar.

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Re: Thanks
[info]laraqua
2006-02-19 06:43 am UTC (link)
Some made-up swear words in fantasy would be better if they sounded like swear words. "Harcht" is better than "Shmilling" because Harcht is more violent and sounds like someone coughing up flehm.

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Re: Thanks
[info]l_clausewitz
2005-10-07 06:31 pm UTC (link)
There's a simpler kind of conlangs meant exactly to serve that purpose, called "naming languages." Check the LangMaker site for more details--the link is in the first conlangs rant.

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Re: Thanks
[info]limyaael
2005-10-08 05:56 pm UTC (link)
You're welcome.

I don't think a language has to back the names, either, but (and I've ranted about this before) I think many fantasy authors are unduly influenced by the common modern pratice of giving children names that the parents just like, and which aren't backed by any particular family history or linguistic tradition. Yes, that happens now, but that's because we have global communication, fairly fast travel, and other things that bring people into contact with a variety of different cultures. A fantasy world where people are stuck in the same village and speaking the same language all their lives is just not going to name one child Rochozzorar and the other Crystal Salt without a hell of a lot of explanation.

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Re: Thanks
[info]robling_t
2005-10-12 11:45 am UTC (link)
A fantasy world where people are stuck in the same village and speaking the same language all their lives is just not going to name one child Rochozzorar and the other Crystal Salt without a hell of a lot of explanation.

...That would probably amount to, "Damn hippies", anyway. ;)

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[info]falar
2005-10-07 11:16 am UTC (link)
I have a bit of a fidgety question about handling conlangs. It's not so much about building them as I have the starts of the handful that I'll need for my fantasy series and just really need to go through and formalize some rules and write some programs to come up with legal words and put definitions to them, but it's more about how you represent them in your fantasy.

See, I have *thinks* sixish "countries". One of them is an Empire which touches all the rest at different points in time, eventually falling from a combination of reasons (including the invention of teleportation). Two of the others have been a part of the Empire for a loooooong time and are probably almost totally speaking Samirran. One of the nations is a newer conquest that eventually rebels. One of the nations is just a place across the ocean that Samir gets their diplomats kicked out of. One of them is, um, tried to be conquered, but rebels almost instantly and gets them out.

Now, I'll be dealing with each of these countries at least partially from the eyes of a character in the country and also from the eyes of people in the other countries.

So, when I'm writing a country from the inside, should I represent what they're saying as in English (as much as is possible) and the foreigners as suitably foreign? And then flip the coin when I'm writing from the perspective of the foreigners?

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There's no single correct answer.
[info]l_clausewitz
2005-10-07 06:04 pm UTC (link)
In my stories, I use English as much as possible. The characters are obviously a good yardstick, and it's a sound idea to use English in place of their own languages when writing from their respective POVS. Their perception of foreign languages will vary, however; deeply multilingual people can be so familiar with some of the languages they knew that you could represent them all with English, perhaps using different jargons and word choice preferences to make subtle distinctions between the specific languages. The languages they don't know so well--and the second language of many bilingual people--can be partially represented with imperfect English, perhaps with slightly mangled grammar and bits and pieces of inappropriate diction. For languages entirely foreign and incomprehensible, you can have the characters either standing in confusion or trying to represent the phonemes of the foreign words in the phonetic system of their own language, like the way the British treated such Native American place-names as Pottawatamie or Chickamauga.

These are just the possibilities I've used myself. There are obviously many other ways, and as the author it is your privilege to make the final choice.

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[info]limyaael
2005-10-08 05:57 pm UTC (link)
I'd also use English to represent all the languages, unless one POV character has no knowledge of the other character's language at all, but to have some knowledge of the grammatical features of all the languages. Perhaps Language A has no contractions, and so his speech sounds very formal to a character who speaks Language B.

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[info]silverwerecat
2005-10-07 02:00 pm UTC (link)
Arcadia was originally part of Greece

It's still here, you know. ;)

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[info]l_clausewitz
2005-10-07 06:22 pm UTC (link)
No, it's now spelled with a K.

(As if it wasn't back then!)

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[info]limyaael
2005-10-08 05:57 pm UTC (link)
True. I meant "Originally, that was its only significance."

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[info]aurorae90
2005-11-06 08:31 pm UTC (link)
The sci-fi show, Firefly, and the consequent movie Serenity both do a great job with language, like reusing standard English words but giving them a whole new meaning. Great rant, though. I love the ideas of having specific words in specific cultures that mean nothing to everyone else. ^_^

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