Limyaael ([info]limyaael) wrote,
@ 2005-05-15 18:50:00
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Current mood: energetic
Entry tags:fantasy rants: spring 2005, rants on nature

Seasonal variation rant
This is a fairly short one, since I’m concentrating more on world-building advice than technical knowledge.



1) Use seasonal details to world-build. It’s odd how little seasons show up in the details of a fantasy author’s world, other than the few stand-bys:

-Autumn: some mention of colored leaves and, quite often, woodsmoke.
-Winter: snow, of course, and frostbite that people seem to pick up when they should be dying. And perhaps a “blizzard” that consists of some snow blowing harder than normal (I was born in Michigan, so I must say: AHAHAHAHAHA).
-Spring: budding leaves, birds singing.
-Summer: heat.

Seasons are so much more than this, and they can be used to individuate your world. It’s especially valuable if your book isn’t going on a journey, but remaining within a relatively small square of land, perhaps a farm or a village or the hills around a city. Get more details in there than just the budding leaves and the birds singing. What happens in this neck of the woods, as opposed to a random neck of Generica?

There can always be unique additions to the season, like trees that sing on the first day of autumn, or birds that always arrive at precisely the same time every year (actually, with the swallows of Capistrano in our own world, that’s not very far-fetched), or fruit that slowly ripens all summer long and doesn’t taste good much before the equinox. But that’s only the most limited facet of it. The really valuable thing about seasons for a fantasy writer is that they allow full use of all the senses to immerse the reader in this imagined world, and you don’t have to create fruit or birds or trees for that. Apples, geese, and pines will do just as well. But make the audience see them, feel them, touch and taste and hear them.

A bird is singing. What kind of bird is it? If you have a character who’s grown up in the area and knows its nature very well, he should recognize the tune. (I always roll my eyes when a character who’s supposedly an accomplished woodsman or ranger sees “trees” and “birds” instead of individual species). If the bird falls silent, what kind of predator is stalking through the woods? It might be a bear, but it might also be too early for a bear; perhaps it’s a snow tiger wandered down from the hills in the last cold snap. The ground underfoot is treacherous from the mud, and mudslides are a greater danger in this area than snow tigers. The characters can hardly see where they’re going because of the mist, which presses clammily against them. Their hounds are likewise having trouble scenting because of the mist and the water. So here come your heroes wobbling on treacherous ground, their visibility limited, their clothing soaked, with a possible snow tiger prowling around them, and I assure you they’re far more real than yet another random party walking along beneath budding leaves and singing birds.

2) Use seasons as consequences and limitations to shape your plot. I suggested this with the mudslides and the mist, and there are a few examples that most authors are aware of; very few have their armies marching in the snow. But you can set a party walking in the transition from spring to summer, which might be the perfect temperature and travel time for your created world, and still give them plenty of problems.

To start with, food. The party decides that they’re going to hunt and gather, because they would be too noticeable if they went into villages and bought food at inns or markets. This plan works fine until they reach the edge of the territory that they know and set out into other lands. Hee. There may be plenty of plants, but how do they know which ones are poisonous, which ones are fine, and which ones will make them throw up and give them hallucinations for a few hours? The edge of spring/beginning of summer will hardly differentiate in what it grows. Hunting’s hit-and-miss, with many real-life hunters (including predatory animals) faring wore than the typical fantasy archer. Perhaps the big animals which are available in winter have withdrawn to the hills to hunt or graze, the birds are busy raising families and aren’t singing as much to let the party know they’re there, and a lot of readily available small animals and fish are not very filling. A wolf can live on a steady diet of mice in the spring/summer. A human probably won’t be able to.

Next, shelter. There isn’t snow to pile. If they’re passing through wide, grassy fields and woods, there aren’t going to be convenient large stones, either. They might need to drag brush and branches together the day that the Dark Lord’s giant hounds corner them. Say the Dark Lord sent giant rats instead the next night. (If I were a Dark Lord and had the power to see what my enemies were doing and how they’d defeated my giant hounds, that’s what I’d do). Bye-bye, shelter of branches.

Next, rivers. They won’t be frozen, which is good news as far as drinking water goes and bad, bad news for crossing them. If your party is traveling closer to the beginning of spring, they might well be swollen with snowmelt, and not every part of the river will have a convenient bridge; that’s especially true if they can’t travel the roads because the Dark Lord might find them. White-water rapids are no fun to cross. All it needs is a little wave sending someone sideways, and he can trip over a rock and break his leg—or his skull. Nearer summer, the river will probably be calmer, perhaps calm enough to wade across, but a riverbed is not smooth. Holes, rocks, fish, little crabs, are just waiting to sprain ankles, stub toes, brush against someone and startle them into hopping into the current, and cause wounds. And if your characters can’t swim and the river is as high as their waists or higher, I sincerely hope that a swimmer can string a rope across, onto which they can hold while they wade.

A tiny sampling, but, as you can see, travel even in spring and summer is rarely a matter of strolling anywhere you like, plucking the berries from the bushes and stepping across rivers in a few moments and finding a convenient abandoned ruin for shelter anywhere you turn.

At least, if you’re in a temperate climate.

3) Try not assuming a temperate climate, and see what happens. What often happens is more violent transitions. A rainfall in a desert during the spring will probably be a rare event and not last very long, but while it lasts, flowers bloom madly, animals reproduce like mad (such as frogs taking advantage of the temporary puddles), and…

Water comes hurtling down the arroyos in flash floods and swallows foolish campers alive. There’s a nasty surprise for desert travelers who’ve thought to guard against lack of water but not water itself.

A jungle might have more abundant food for travelers, assuming they’re used to that terrain, but the seasons still won’t make travel easy. During the dry season, water becomes a precious commodity, plants will start drooping and wilting and won’t taste as good or offer as much shade, and the heat will take its toll on the morale and strength of anyone walking. As much as they need to escape the Dark Lord’s soldiers, your heroes will still need to pause and try to find shelter during noon or whenever the hottest part of the day is. Running afoul of the Dark Lord’s soldiers isn’t good, but neither is collapsing with heat exhaustion. If they’re really unlucky, and traveling through a really dry stretch of jungle, then lightning might strike and start a forest fire, which is going to travel really fucking fast.

When the rains come, they may be monsoons; they may not. They often will flood rivers, start floods if a natural dam breaks, make the ground slushy and marshy underfoot, call forth animals from hiding that include, say, venomous snakes and constrictors, wet wood so it’ll be hard to burn (as well as put fires out), promote the spread of diseases like cholera, make shelters hard to find and uncomfortable when they are found, weigh down clothes and packs, ruin important documents, and aggravate wounds by causing bandages to rot away more quickly than normal and once-broken bones to ache. There are all sorts of neat sadistic things that you can do to your characters.

In an arctic climate, your characters may be far north or south enough to clap down darkness for half the year, but without that, travel in the cold is still no picnic. A ship that sails among ice floes is probably not going to get out again; aside from the ice gripping it, it can shift and smash the ship in half. Cold will eat at exposed skin, consume digits and noses and ears, make people much more prone to become sick, freeze valuable drinking water (and drinking melted snow is really no substitute), kill anyone sleeping too far from a fire, and kill the animals, like horses and dogs, that the heroes might be depending on to move them. And then there’s the snow.

When the winter lessens and the summer comes, things will be warmer, but only just. Animals reproduce, but, once again, it’s tiny animals like lemmings and mice that are most plentiful. And a lot of the really rich and valuable food will be grazing where the heroes can’t reach it, or swimming where they can’t reach it. And with the big predators on the move, they’re more likely to attract unfriendly animal attention, even if it’s just by accidentally encountering a polar bear in a bad mood.

Sick of the endless round of spring, summer, autumn, and winter? Here are some challenges to liven that up.

4) Avoid the pathetic fallacy as much as possible. Here’s another thing that might not irritate most people, but it irritates the hell out of me. My rant, so it gets ranted about, even if its entry is small and goes at the end.

The pathetic fallacy is attributing human emotions to nature or inanimate objects. Where it shows up in bad writing is when the author uses nature, weather, or seasons to reflect the emotions of the characters. So the heroine starts crying as she watches her village burning down, and here comes the rain to drown the fire and “cry with her.” The hero is making the decision to kill the Dark Lord, and he walks beside “an angry sea, tossing its waves onto the shore just as Harold tossed away his inhibitions.” The day of a duel dawns gray and murky, not because the author wants mud for the hero and opponent to slop and slip in—that’s a good reason to make the weather that way—but because “the whole world is mourning” the fact that the opponent stupidly challenged the hero to a duel when the hero has to be out doing something else. The very worst authors will make the clouds break just as the hero kills his poor stupid opponent and send down a beam of sunlight to sparkle on his sword.

Can we stop this, please? You really don’t need it. At the best, these are usually purple and obvious contrivances to writing that’s subtle and doesn’t need to make its point that loudly. At their worst, the author will completely ignore the established conditions to create her pathetic fallacy weather, such as having the storm come and put out the burning village when she’s already said that that area is dry and hot in summer and never gets storms.

There can be reasons to have the weather and the season follow what you want them to be. I’ve discussed a lot of them in the first three points. This isn’t a good reason.



There will be a poll in a few hours’ time, as that marks the end of this section of rants.




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[info]ldymusyc
2005-05-15 11:24 pm UTC (link)
*applause* Possibly one of the things that annoys me most about fantasy - completely ignoring the effects of the weather. Thank you!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-05-18 02:20 am UTC

[info]otakukeith
2005-05-15 11:31 pm UTC (link)
Alternatively, you can have winters and summers that last for variable numbers of years and drive your readers round the bend trying to figure out how the smeg *that* happens.

Or you can just make it whatever season you want without worrying about how much time has passed, because the Dark One can influence the weather all over the world (yet he can't seem to find competent minions or be bothered starting his whocking great invasion).

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]maureenlycaon, 2005-05-16 03:15 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-05-18 02:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]maureenlycaon, 2005-05-18 02:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]raleighj, 2005-05-16 06:20 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-05-18 02:22 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]duckmole86, 2005-05-26 07:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bneuensc, 2005-05-18 02:36 am UTC

[info]troubadour118
2005-05-15 11:32 pm UTC (link)
One of my backburner ideas for a "grand" fantasy is a world with dozens of elementally-tied seasons - fire, earth, water, air, etc - which influences the world's reincarnation cycle.

(Reply to this)


[info]kutsuwamushi
2005-05-15 11:33 pm UTC (link)
(I always roll my eyes when a character who’s supposedly an accomplished woodsman or ranger sees “trees” and “birds” instead of individual species)

This is a problem that I've yet to solve: Although I write about a fantasy world similar to Earth, it's not Earth. For example, the trees are not going to be Earth species.

When it comes to adding little details like the type of trees that are lining a path, I can't say "poplars". I would have to either make up a name or just use the vague "trees".

I don't really mind an occasional made-up name in the stories I read, but I'm always afraid that they'll look stupid. (Because I've seen made-up names that struck me as stupid for no reason that I could put my finger on.)

4) Avoid the pathetic fallacy as much as possible.

I don't understand why the setting always has to reflect on what's happening, anyway. Who made it against the rules for the evil Emperor to plot his invasions in a brightly-lit, tastefully furnished room while birds chirp happily outside the window? Why can't the hero's best friend be killed on a warm, sunny day?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]beccastareyes, 2005-05-16 04:00 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wanderingbhikkh, 2005-05-16 04:50 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blunder_buss, 2005-05-16 06:57 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]alex_von_cercek, 2005-05-16 07:12 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]farmercuerden, 2005-05-17 09:43 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]duckmole86, 2005-05-26 07:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]evilstorm, 2005-05-16 07:10 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-05-18 02:27 am UTC

[info]lacylu42
2005-05-15 11:55 pm UTC (link)
Can we make rant requests? I'd love to see one on education: schools, monistaries, knight training, magic training, hero training -- the lot.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]blunder_buss, 2005-05-16 06:55 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-05-18 02:28 am UTC

[info]eisoj5
2005-05-16 12:05 am UTC (link)
-Winter: snow, of course, and frostbite that people seem to pick up when they should be dying. And perhaps a “blizzard” that consists of some snow blowing harder than normal (I was born in Michigan, so I must say: AHAHAHAHAHA).

You were born in Michigan? Where? I grew up in metro Detroit and live in Ann Arbor :)

Heh. Blizzards=snow blowing harder than normal. Wusses. :)

(I second the education rant request!)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]wanderingbhikkh, 2005-05-16 04:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blacktigr, 2005-05-16 06:28 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-05-18 02:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]marumae, 2005-05-19 03:18 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]duckmole86, 2005-05-26 07:19 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-05-18 02:31 am UTC

[info]merditha
2005-05-16 12:18 am UTC (link)
The cold also makes you burn energy massively faster - you will always be hungry and always be tired, unless you're used to it. There's a reason the Inuit eat what they do and still burn it off; you need that much energy because half of it is going to your body working to keep you warm.

::grin:: I come from somewhere on the same latitude as Moscow, and I've travelled further north, and it was hard enough up there with the amenities we have now. Let alone in any kind of low-tech fantasy setting.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-05-18 02:34 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]duckmole86, 2005-05-26 07:22 am UTC

[info]khukuri
2005-05-16 12:32 am UTC (link)
call forth animals from hiding that include, say, poisonous snakes and constrictors

On the subject of little things that irritate... snakes are venomous, not poisonous. ;)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]serpentinthesun, 2005-05-16 12:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]eisoj5, 2005-05-16 01:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_s_guy, 2005-05-16 03:16 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]cartesiandaemon, 2005-05-16 04:39 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-05-18 02:35 am UTC
(None)
[info]alegwyni
2005-05-16 01:40 am UTC (link)
First, hurrah for Michigan natives! Down with easy winters! Hell, we had at least four inches of snow in APRIL. That's not even mentioning the almost constant snow during the colder parts of the year.

Actually, this year was pretty easy.

Next, I'm in complete agreement with you on the pathetic fallacy. It really annoys me how the world is always in perfect sync with the protagonist's emotions. I, personally, think it's a lot more... poignant when the world continues, oblivious to their problems.

But that's just me.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: (None) - [info]wanderingbhikkh, 2005-05-16 04:55 am UTC
Re: (None) - [info]duckmole86, 2005-05-26 07:25 am UTC

[info]reiknight
2005-05-16 01:50 am UTC (link)
I come from an area where we have a very deadly snake: the tiapan.
Snakes like heat. If your summer in your novels is hot, and full of heat, snakes are going to love it. And if you have your party just wandering along aimlessly, distracted by the heat, well, chances are they'll find a snake just sunning itself.
But of course, we rarely see snakes in fantasy novels.
I've written in some venomous snakes, introduced from Earth.
3) Try not assuming a temperate climate, and see what happens.
Heh, this also reminded me of something that happened near where I live. The rivers and creeks are pretty much all have their sources in the mountains. We also get heavy rain in the mountains.
These city slickers from the south found a nice, dry creek bed to make their camp in. In the night they were woken by a loud, thunderous noise. They scrambled out of their tents and up onto the banks of the creek, only to turn and find a flood sweeping down the supposedly dry creek bed, completely washing their camp away. Its a true story.

Where it shows up in bad writing is when the author uses nature, weather, or seasons to reflect the emotions of the characters.
Blegh. That is so annoying! So many author say their characters are not Gods (which they usually are) and yet the weather is at their "emotional command".
Emotions do not influence weather. Weather can influence emotions.
(Unless, of course your character is a weather mage and can in fact, influence the weather with his/her emotions, either consciously or subconsciously.)

I'll be bookmarking this rant for future reference. I can see a whole lot of oppotunities opening up for me to go back and add in some more detail to the seasons.
Live and learn. :)


Oh, I just wondered if there had ever been a rant done on injuries to your characters and their effects and disadvantages are.
(And for some authors, how to keep track of the injury and not conveniently forget about it in the middle of battle)

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]maureenlycaon, 2005-05-16 03:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]duckmole86, 2005-05-26 07:29 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-05-18 02:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]duckmole86, 2005-05-26 07:31 am UTC

[info]ocarina
2005-05-16 02:14 am UTC (link)
2) Use seasons as consequences and limitations to shape your plot.

This I love. And even not so dramatic weather can cause people to be cranky or dissappointed. And, of course, if you have an agricultural society, weather is going to matter a LOT. And you will have weather predicters who are wrong when the hero belives them and right when he scoffs. =D

4) Avoid the pathetic fallacy as much as possible.

This is something I can get away with in comics! Ahaha! It's SUCH a guilty pleasure. But when you're doing something visual, you never have to actually mention or really bring into focus something like mood "lighting". It's just way off in the background. I just make sure to have it WAY off in the background.

(Reply to this)


[info]frenchpony
2005-05-16 03:06 am UTC (link)
Reminds me of a useful writing tip I picked up from the place I used to work. I used to work for a TV production company, and weather was one of the topics they produced lots of shows about (crime and the law was the other real big subject). The executive producer/CEO would occasionally call all the production staff, and anyone else who wanted to listen, to screen clips from recent shows and discuss tips for better writing and storytelling.

One of his big lessons was this: the weather is not a person. It has no feelings; neither does it have agency. A tornado cannot be angry; a blizzard cannot be merciless. They just are. Therefore, the trick to telling a forty-five-minute long story about a weather event is to not tell the story about the event so much as to tell the individual stories of the people reacting to the weather event. You don't talk about the tornado. You talk about the stormchasers out on the prairie who drive up real close to see and then realize that this storm has suddenly gotten a lot bigger than they suspected it would, it's now half a mile distant, racing at hundreds of miles an hour right towards them, and since there's no way that they can outrun it, they have to outwit it instead, driving away from it as fast as they can at what they can only hope is right angles to its predicted path. Once you tell that story well, you can show the video of the tornado exploding the farmhouse, and it will be that much better.

I actually learned a lot about the weather and about how natural disasters develop from working there. So I could write about a tornado in a fantasy story and pick the right season to set the story in, describe the changes in the weather right before it hit, and estimate the realistic amount of damage this storm could do in the time span it had (lots, and very litte, respectively). And, for another story, I knew the stages of a forest fire, and why the inhabitants of a forest that had been set on fire were suddenly very happy that it was the cold, damp tail end of a snowy winter when it happened, because the fire didn't crown.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]reiknight, 2005-05-16 05:26 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]frenchpony, 2005-05-16 05:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blunder_buss, 2005-05-16 06:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]otakukeith, 2005-05-16 08:52 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blunder_buss, 2005-05-16 12:57 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bneuensc, 2005-05-16 09:23 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]reiknight, 2005-05-16 10:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]maureenlycaon, 2005-05-16 03:34 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]bneuensc, 2005-05-18 02:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-05-18 02:39 am UTC

[info]blunder_buss
2005-05-16 04:25 am UTC (link)
Ahh, number three made me remember a big no-no when camping in Australia - never camp in dry riverbeds. Sure, it may seem nice and flat, perfect for sleeping and fires. There hasn't been rain for weeks, so you'll be fine.

... Until there's a huge rainfall further north, and flash-flood baby! Bye bye campers!

Anyway, these seasonal rants keep convincing me to write an Australian climate for any fantasy story - I'm tired of the LOTR-esque green hills. Gimme grey bushland and flat sands any day.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]wanderingbhikkh, 2005-05-16 05:08 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blunder_buss, 2005-05-16 06:51 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]wanderingbhikkh, 2005-05-16 07:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blunder_buss, 2005-05-16 12:58 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]lexica510, 2005-05-16 07:46 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]wanderingbhikkh, 2005-05-17 06:53 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]lexica510, 2005-05-18 07:03 pm UTC

[info]aleissi
2005-05-16 05:53 am UTC (link)
You are wondeful and we love your rants.

*sneaks away*

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]aleissi, 2005-05-16 08:44 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-05-18 02:40 am UTC

[info]seawolf10
2005-05-16 07:01 am UTC (link)
Liked it. The absence of a familiar weather pattern and its effects could also be interesting.

What happens if you've got an Egyptian-style society and the Dark Lord takes away the rain up in the mountains that floods the river every year, thereby preventing the floods which spread fertile soil around and make the crops grow? ;)

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(no subject) - [info]l_clausewitz, 2005-05-16 07:31 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]seawolf10, 2005-05-17 07:32 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]blunder_buss, 2005-05-16 01:00 pm UTC
(no subject) - [info]seawolf10, 2005-05-17 07:35 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]bneuensc, 2005-05-16 09:25 pm UTC

[info]l_clausewitz
2005-05-16 07:23 am UTC (link)
One word: Helliconia. The part-sf, part-fantasy trilogy by the British writer Brian Aldiss (well, the Brits are less likely to abide by genre boundaries than Americans do) is one of the best season-related works I've ever read. The third book may be rather boring, but, well, at least I like the first book like hell :P

(Reply to this)


[info]tavalya_ra
2005-05-16 01:36 pm UTC (link)
Yikes! I've never really paid much attention to the seasons other than to note their passing (although I should mention something about heat in the first book- it's got to be hot in that city the protagonists are stuck in). I should pay more attention to this- especially when they hit that jungle. (Rain storm ruining a battlefield? Sounds like fun- wonder how my witches will handle it.)

I have a world that is eternally locked in winter; the source of magic is almost completely dominated by a single individual who can make crops grow through sheer force of will. He doesn't do this nearly enough because he's an ass.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-05-18 02:44 am UTC

[info]maureenlycaon
2005-05-16 03:36 pm UTC (link)
Gods, I love stuff like this! Thank you. :-)

Perhaps the big animals which are available in winter have withdrawn to the hills to hunt or graze, the birds are busy raising families and aren’t singing as much to let the party know they’re there, and a lot of readily available small animals and fish are not very filling.

I should point out though, that in almost every ecosystem I know the details of, there's always at least one species of hoofed animal that stays in the same area year-round. But it's usually an animal that doesn't live in convenient herds.

(The Los Angeles basin where I live may be one of the rare exceptions, since I can't seem to find any confirmation of pronghorns or wapiti ever living in the basin proper. The Tongva Indians had to move up into the mountains of Angeles National Forest in summer, because that's where all the mule deer went off to.) (/end pedant mode)

Holes, rocks, fish, little crabs, are just waiting to sprain ankles, stub toes, brush against someone and startle them into hopping into the current, and cause wounds.

To say nothing of leeches (yes, they do live in temperate climates too), snapping turtles in the southeastern U.S., etc.

3) HEAR HEAR! People tend to assume that when it rains in a desert, it must just sprinkle gently. Not hardly! An entire year's rain is concentrated in just a few big rainstorms, and those rainstorms can be of apocalyptic intensity.

Here in L.A., the climate is incredibly uneven; Mike Davis called it "the landscape of catastrophe". The rains can fail for five or six years at a time. Then, we can have one or two killer years of violent, intense, heavy rainfall, like we had just this past winter. In 1933, almost the entire L.A. basin was underwater due to flooding. You should see the old aerial photos of it.

For a fantasy party to travel through such a winter would be real hell -- even leaving aside the danger of mudslides, which are inevitable if they're anywhere near mountains or even hills.

During the dry season, water becomes a precious commodity, plants will start drooping and wilting and won’t taste as good or offer as much shade . . . What you're describing here is really tropical woodland, not rainforest. In a rainforest, during the rainy season, the whole area can become flooded. This happens annually in the Amazon, and is why most animals there can climb trees and even live in them for a time.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-05-18 02:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]maureenlycaon, 2005-05-18 02:35 pm UTC

[info]bneuensc
2005-05-16 09:37 pm UTC (link)
As someone who suffers from it herself, I'd also like to give a nod to Season Affective Disorder. You don't have to go to the lands that have days of darkness on end for people to be made depressed and listless by insufficient light, and even if you've grown up in that region, it can still affect you. And it can make motivating yourself to do anything far harder than it should be.

I can also toss out some heat information to make brutal summers more real to those who haven't lived through one. 1980 was the worst summer on record in Texas. (It also, as a side note, was the first summer my poor mother spent in Texas. She was seven to nine months pregnant with me at the time.) Without going and digging up the exact stats again, I can say that there were something like sixty-seven days above a hundred, forty-nine of which were consecutive. The average high in July was 105, with two days at 113. What do these numbers translate into as far as experience goes? Houses shifted and suffered minor structural damage as their foundations dried out. People's front yards started cracking where the soil dried out into something approximately the consistency of concrete. Trains went off the tracks because the rails were warped by the heat. Weather like that is lethal to the very old, the very young, or the ill, if you don't have or can't afford air conditioning. You have to guzzle water just about nonstop, and if you try to walk barefoot on stone or concrete, you can literally burn your feet.

And that's not even desert conditions. The area I grew up in is grassland, and it can still get that bad.

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[info]farmercuerden
2005-05-17 11:19 am UTC (link)
Kind of reminds me of the openings to Simon R. Green (thank you so much for recommending him!)'s Hawk and Fisher books. Each one opens with a description of the weather in Haven in that season, and how it affects the population. I believe those wonderful two-or-three paragraph descriptive passages of the effects of weather did more to make haven come alive for me than any of the static multi-page descriptions of lesser authors.

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(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-05-18 02:47 am UTC

[info]holyschist
2005-05-17 03:18 pm UTC (link)
Fantasy lacks sufficient depressing drizzle and pouring cold rain (as distinct from tropical showers) for days on end (followed by flooding), IMO. Temperate moist climates are not dramatic nor pleasant enough for most writers, I think.

BTW, I adored Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell. Have you come across any other books like it, or is it fairly unique?

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(no subject) - [info]limyaael, 2005-05-18 02:49 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]holyschist, 2005-05-19 05:11 pm UTC

[info]stillsostrange
2005-05-19 09:17 pm UTC (link)
On vaguely-but-not-really weather related note, have you ever discussed the repercussions of multiples moons on a world? The "It's not Earth because it has two moons!" theory is all well and good until you come to the matter of tides. I'm amazed any could ever sail to Sarantium at all.

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[info]duckmole86
2005-05-26 07:51 am UTC (link)
In desert conditions (the area of Idaho that I live in is technically desert, despite the sagebrush and other weeds that do well enough), the soil is cracked all the time because it's so dry, save should you have a good well or other water supply. As for digging that well... you'd better have a mage to dig a couple hundred, maybe as much as four hundred feet down unless you happen to have a very convenient ditch or set of well-drilling equipment. And weather mages... they'd be in trouble unless they can work without water, seeing as there freaking is none!

I just thought I'd post all that. Now I've got another bit of plot bunny. Maybe I'll eventually pull together a plot. Or a basic clue, at any rate, as I like to have a general idea of where I'm going when I write.

Anyhow, this is an excellent rant, made all the better for my love of weather. I raise my tea mug to you.

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Weather
[info]caremel
2005-05-31 11:30 am UTC (link)
I totally agree about the seasons! The worst is when it is inside and people start eating fruit during midwinter and I think "Hello? Why don't you tell us how they got fruit in the middle of winter without refrigeration? Yes, it would be interesting if you told us about how difficult it was to transport it and the great expense, because without it you have an inaccuracy!" One of the many thing I find distressing in novels.

~Caremel

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[info]triad_serpent
2007-02-22 11:24 am UTC (link)
First of all....

*glomps* YAY FOR MICHIGAN!! Me too! And, yes, fictional blizzards are indeed a laugh. ^..^ What I wonder, is why most fantasy books always take place where it's far enough north for there to BE blizzards. I mean, I'm living in Taiwan right now, and their "winter" feels like early Michigan autumn. You know, like, September, or something. *grins* My novel takes place between April and November in a fairly moderate climate. Light snows, if any, more normally just frost and the ground frozen through. And of course, for the part that is near water, there are all those air currents to take into consideration....oh, the Great Lakes. ^______^ Normally (by which I mean back in the States) I live where there's a pocket between air currents, or something. We get super deep snow on either side of us, but where I actually live tends to get milder snowfalls.

And, OH spring. Mud doesn't even begin to cover it. All that snow melts, usually for a brief time in January, then freezes again, then melts again, and then it's mud up to your waist in places, and freezing puddles, and....*shudders* I admit, I much prefer Taiwan's climate. Except, when it is cold here it's a clinging cold due to humidity. Damp gets into EVERYTHING, and no matter how many layers you wear, it's hard to get rid of! And rain. It does not RAIN in Taiwan. It does not POUR in Taiwan. It fucking turns over the ocean on one's head. Only, minus the salt...

These are, unfortunately, the only two climates I've experienced year-round, to date. (Not for long! I'll be living in Ireland for three years when I finish high school! Then it will be three climates! ...how different is that part of the world's climate from MI, I wonder....)

Also, hunting in the dead of winter. Heh. FUN. (Yes, I hunt...sorry if that offends anyone.) Ice, snow, usually some puddles of freezing water, deep in the forest. Everything is muffled feeling and silent but for the occasional clump of snow that falls from pine boughs. And if you're hunting in winter, you'll either want a blind, a good fir tree, or both, so that your target doesn't see you. If you have a big tree, nice, shielding, etc., you have to climb it. YES, in all that heavy snow gear, unless you want to get up there, only to turn into a hunter-cicle. It was easy for me when I was thirteen - my dad said, "All the way up," and I took him at his word. Not so easy for him. Also, bait. We use apples, salt licks, etc., to lure the deer to us. When I read Eragon, I laughed at the first chapter, in which Christopher Paolini's protagonist (a fifteen year old boy -- note that the author was fifteen when he started writing the book -- who finds a dragon egg...geeeee, I wonder....) is trudging through mountain valleys TRACKING a herd of deer. Tracking them. It's hard enough to track one that's already shot, let alone live and leaping ones! Gah. I wanted to shake him.

And what's with hunters who can drop a deer in one? I mean, sure, that's defintely preferable -- less pain for the animal and all that -- but it's hardly realistic...!

Lovely rant as always. ^^

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