Limyaael ([info]limyaael) wrote,
@ 2003-12-10 09:15:00
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Current mood: artistic
Entry tags:fantasy rants: winter 2003, story structure rants

'Nother rant because I can.


1) Paragraph of action or dialogue, then endless paragraphs of description/exposition. Say your story begins this way:

"Come here, Beldeira!" Syelli called softly. "I don't think that we should be heard, not if we don't want them to break our fingers."

I want to know what the hell Syelli and Beldeira are doing, please. I do not want endless descriptions of the room they're standing in, how beautiful the characters are, what the view out the window is like, and this tapestry over here that displays how the Battle of Rockingroll was fought ten thousand years ago and won by King Avediwhoop. Drop in little bits of description and exposition as you go along, instead of piling them all at once. Nothing like that to bring the action to a screeching halt.

2) Starting out with an immediate scene designed to make us go "Awwww!". Characters usually have to earn my sympathy. Setting up a scene where the main character gets abused as a child, or raped, or scorned by other characters for nothing in particular is pure emotional manipulation. Case in point: See Mercedes Lackey's Magic's Pawn. The character Vanyel starts actually winning a fight, and is immediately beaten down, has his arm broken, and is scorned by all his siblings. The second chapter consists entirely of whining. Not a good idea.

Once the reader figures out that she's being emotionally manipulated, she's a lot less likely to be sympathetic. Also, another bad thing that this does is present the hero or heroine as a victim, and while it may be an easy ploy to gain attention, it's difficult to turn the character convincingly into a hero after that.

3) Starting out with a flashback in which the character caps her entire recent history. Yeah, right. Show us by later mentions in the story, please. For a good published example of this, see Lois McMaster Bujold's The Curse of Chalion. The character is first shown walking down a road, obviously in pain for what has happened in his past, but Bujold doesn't immediately go into a flashback on how the past was cruel and awful ohmygod. She gives sketchy details first, telling us that Cazaril was a galley slave, and only later do we see how awful it was, when other characters who don't know the story ask. By that time, the reader's sympathy (or at least mine) is engaged for Cazaril, the way it isn't for a character who takes one step and immediately starts thinking about her nine brothers and sisters and how she has to slave as a prostitute for them.

4) Having a mythological prologue that doesn't have anything apparently to do with the following story. This was original (I think) when David Eddings did it, setting up legends that were to have relevance to his Quest Objects. Now it seems that every amateur fantasy author starts out with some kind of prophecy or myth of the gods. I do a checklist. Are the gods the main characters of the story? No? Start with the character, please. Is the writer good with mythological language? No (the answer most of the time?) Then stop trying to do something you're not good at. Is the writer using this as an infodump? Yes (as is true almost all the time?) Stop it.

5) Having no discernible POV. This POV floats from character head to character head, or even describes things no character could possibly know, like how many times the moons have risen since the world began or how the sea has changed the shape of the land over thousands of years. Bo-ring. This has the problems of exposition multiplied, since there's not even a paragraph of dialogue or action to try and hook us. Some authors aim for a 'movie' approach, where first they come in like a camera on a castle or a scene, and then choose the character whose perception they share. I don't think this works very well, since if the techniques of books don't often translate to screen, the same is true in reverse. Movies are essentially dramatic media; they show you visual images, just as drama shows the actors, and they show you what the characters do and say rather than what's going on inside their heads. Books have to have some interiority, or it's really hard to relate, and the interiority needs to stay at least partially constant. I have read stories that bounce viewpoints every few paragraphs, or bounce between chapters and then never return to certain characters, and it's really, really annoying. I think many amateur fantasy authors try for multiple viewpoint characters thinking that's the way they have to write, because they're writing epics. However, most authors should probably wait until they've had some practice with single viewpoints and rooting themselves in them before they try for multiplicity.



Whenever I do it, the main character's childhood is next.




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[info]gehayi
2003-12-10 03:30 pm UTC (link)
I love reading your rants about fiction. They teach me so much.

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[info]otakukeith
2003-12-10 06:30 pm UTC (link)
I agree - this is just the sort of common-sense stuff that people should be forced to read before they're allowed to post their OMGSOKEWL story about Princess [Insert Author's Name] and her quest to return to her kingdom and defeat the DARKNESS!!!!111!!!111! all over the Internet.

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[info]bardintraining
2005-10-13 03:16 am UTC (link)
I love your icon, btw. Greebo was by far my favourite character.

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[info]clannoire
2003-12-10 03:30 pm UTC (link)
These are very useful, actually. :D *takes notes*

I have read stories that bounce viewpoints every few paragraphs, or bounce between chapters and then never return to certain characters, and it's really, really annoying.

I'm quite fond of the multiple-POV thing. :) The author gets to relate everything happening throughout the story, and sometimes important plot points can only be told through a particular character's POV.
You did point out, however, that this can only be pulled off if the author returns to previous characters' viewpoints instead of jumping from characer to character and then abandoning them in the next chapter, so yeah. :)

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[info]limyaael
2003-12-11 07:17 pm UTC (link)
You did point out, however, that this can only be pulled off if the author returns to previous characters' viewpoints instead of jumping from characer to character and then abandoning them in the next chapter, so yeah. :)

That's the problem. A lot of amateur fantasy authors don't really know whose story it is, and others do know but think they have to show us what the bad guys are doing, and there's this insignificant guy on another continent who will eventually be important to the story, and here's the heroine's father, and here's her dog, and...

It's an acquired skill to be able to show immediately why each character is important to the story, and I think sometimes even professional authors don't always know what viewpoints would be best. (Lynn Flewelling's Luck in the Shadows has far, far too much of the villain's viewpoint, and so their movements are rarely any surprise). A dull viewpoint character being used to keep an eye on events that don't seem to matter won't matter in and of him- or herself.

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I've lurked for a while and...
[info]wolfychan
2003-12-10 06:17 pm UTC (link)
I love it when you're, as you call it, declamatory about fiction. I've gotten some of my best writing advice here.

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[info]marumae
2003-12-10 06:19 pm UTC (link)
instead of piling them all at once. Nothing like that to bring the action to a screeching halt.


Can we say Elizabeth Haydon's Rhapsody ? Also Anne Rice has this problem MAJORLY. Some of the older classical authors have this problem but it seems to work out for them, how odd ne?

) Starting out with an immediate scene designed to make us go "Awwww!".

This is great advice that I needed on how not to make a character annoying and whinning instead of sympathetic and likable like he's supposed to be >_@; Man Limyaael you're on a roll xD.

) Starting out with a flashback in which the character caps her entire recent history.
This is a problem I have, I'm one of those people who likes to know about who they are supposed to be sympathizing with and such and I often have a problem with infodumping *nods*


I may just copy this entry and save it for later advice use :3

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[info]limyaael
2003-12-11 07:19 pm UTC (link)
I think often with the infodump, people forget they have a whole book to set up their characters (this happens particularly with people more used to writing short stories). So you may have four hundred pages to slip in that the heroine's blue-eyed and doesn't like spiders and is scared of rats because one bit her when she was a child, and so on.

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[info]nobodys_grrl
2003-12-11 09:09 pm UTC (link)
I very, very nearly did the prologue/infodump thing, before I realised how boring a reader would find it, and probably forget everything anyway. And was it even relevant? Erm, not entirely.
But it's a very easy mistake to make when you're wondering how to give the reader background before the actual story starts. And sometimes it works - I think Guy Gavriel Kay did it in either Tigana or The Summer Tree.

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[info]illandaria
2003-12-10 06:42 pm UTC (link)
Vanyel never quite made it to hero for me. He was always the whiny victim. That's one of those books I don't think I could ever re-read.

Also, I think it's bad form to have characters and places with names I can't personally pronounce, but that could just be me. :P

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[info]limyaael
2003-12-11 07:19 pm UTC (link)
Heh. That last is going under the rant on language.

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[info]erythros
2003-12-10 07:35 pm UTC (link)
how the sea has changed the shape of the land over thousands of years

I think that James Michener is the only author ever who can pull this off at all.

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[info]mariagoner
2003-12-11 06:39 am UTC (link)
Nothing to do with nothing but... want me to send you a Christmas card this year? (My livejournal hombre paraque gave me this idea... and now I want to spread the holliday cheer!)

Email me at confusedta@aol.com to send me your address info, and I'll send you mine if you want to send me a card in turn.

Seasons Greetings!
Maria
(And you may just soon find out my real name... :) )

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[info]irian
2003-12-11 05:54 pm UTC (link)
Your rants are very informative. Rant away all you want.

My take on number 1 would be that amateur authors seem to think that since they're writing a "fantasy" novel, they have to describe every single detail of their fantasy world in order to make it believable.

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[info]limyaael
2003-12-11 07:20 pm UTC (link)
Exactly. Again, people get into the idea that they must make the reader know everything now, which simply isn't possible. The books are lengthy for a reason: so that the author can properly tell everybody everything that's necessary.

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[info]laraqua
2006-02-15 08:20 am UTC (link)
I started reading fantasy novels only recently and I've noticed in a few of them that they do the whole "Start with a myth" thing at the begging of Part One, Part Two, etc. and usually the myth has this link to the parts of the novel if done well, sort of like an analogy, that can be good if there's a prophecy going on, but in some cases, okay in both the novels I saw it in - the link was tenuous, at best, in one, and non-existent far as I could tell in the other.

But, meh.

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[info]little_e_
2006-03-28 07:17 pm UTC (link)
Heh... I fucking hate prologues. I'll rant about them just about any time. ^_^ Of all the entries I've got in my novel contest, only one has a prologue which actually ought to be there, and even it could probably be cut without hurting the story.

Oh, right, this is Sylphi.

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[info]kaboom
2006-06-13 07:53 am UTC (link)
This is awesome. I hate writing introductions, but you've helped show me the way ^^ Adding to memories!

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