Museum of Hoaxes ([info]hornswoggle) wrote,
@ 2002-11-17 21:53:00
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Signing the back of your credit card
I had been led to understand that by either not signing the back of my credit card, or by writing "SEE ID" on the back of it, I was somehow making my credit card safer. The reasoning went like this: if someone stole my credit card they would not know what my signature looked like. In addition, they would be forced to show a valid ID in order to use it.

So I go to the post office to mail some packages, and when it comes time to pay I whip out my credit card and hand it to the postal employee. She takes one look at it and says, "I'm sorry, Sir. But this card is not valid unless you sign the back of it." I smirk and explain that by writing "See ID" on the back of it, I've actually made my card more secure. As I say this I thrust my ID eagerly in her face.

But she's not about to budge. She repeats, "I'm sorry, Sir. But this card is not valid unless you sign the back of it."

I hesitate. I'm thinking to myself, "how stupid can this woman be?" I explain once again why I haven't signed it. Her insistence on needing it to be signed doesn't change. So exasperated, and really not wanting to have to leave with my packages unsent, I say loudly, "Okay, I'll sign the card RIGHT NOW!" And dramatically I sign the card and hand it to her.

She takes it, runs it through the machine. And that's that.

But all the way home in my car I'm fuming about the stupidity of this woman. How could she not understand that my card was more secure by not being signed, I'm thinking. Does the post office insist on making credit card users less secure? And after all, why didn't the words 'SEE ID' count as my signifying mark? How did she know that that wasn't my signature? Don't illiterate people sign with the mark "X"? Would the post office not allow illiterate people to use credit cards?

I'm weaving these elaborate arguments in my mind as I drive, and plotting to return to the post office and have a showdown with her manager. Then as soon as I get home I run to the internet and do a search for "SEE ID" and "credit card".

To my dismay Google directs me right to the Visa and Mastercard websites which inform me that it is indeed not allowed to write "SEE ID" on the back of your card. That you MUST sign the back of it.

So I guess I've been the victim of misinformation. I wonder how many other people are wandering around with "SEE ID" on the back of their cards, arguing with all the poor cashiers who tell them that the cards have to be signed?


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Then ... ?
(Anonymous)
2002-11-18 03:22 pm UTC (link)
I've been looking, and I haven't been able to find any reasoning behind requiring credit cards to be signed. When you make a credit card purchase, you sign the sales slip. Unless you're paying at the pump for gas, then you don't sign anything, but there's no one there to look at the back of your card anyway. In that case, possession is ten tenths of the law.

So what's the point with the signatures anyway?

On a side note, an NPR story last week related WalMart's recent suit against Visa and Mastercard. Debit card transactions cost the merchant about nine cents per 100 dollars sold. Credit card transactions cost the merchant about $1.50 per $100 sold. So if you're using a check card with the Visa or Mastercard logo on it -- use it as a *debit* card and punch in your PIN. Help prevent your local merchants from having to spend more than they need to.

Nougat

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[info]aitp
2003-12-17 06:57 pm UTC (link)
So what's the point with the signatures anyway?
From the back of my credit card:
By signing... this card, you acknowledge receipt of, and agree to be bound by, the Issuer's terms and conditions....
AITP

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Then ... ?
(Anonymous)
2004-03-10 07:51 pm UTC (link)
Because if I use the card as a debit card anywhere other than the issuing bank's ATM, the bank charges ME the $1.50, but if I use it as a credit card I personally do not have an additional fee.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: Then ... ?
(Anonymous)
2006-05-03 11:20 pm UTC (link)
That is an awful idea...YOU then get tagged a buck or two for an 'ATM' transaction...

(Reply to this)(Parent)

one better
[info]hymie
2003-02-07 03:02 pm UTC (link)
I've also got a "SEE ID" on the back of my card. *FREQUENTLY*, I'll buy stuff, have the cashier turn the card over, look at the "signature", compare it to what I've signed, and then hand my card back. Happens to me *all* the time.

Oh, and check this, I sign my slips with obviously fake names (Mickey Mouse and Bob Villa are my two favorites) and I have *never* had someone question my signature.

grr. So much for theft protection.

Oh! And I *ROUTINELY* use my wife's credit card. She has a "SEE ID" notice on the back (actually, hers reads "NOT VALID WITHOUT PHOTO ID"). She has a very obviously female name. I have *NEVER* been questioned about using her card.

Just thought I'd share in venting.

(Reply to this)


[info]jesse
2003-02-27 06:10 pm UTC (link)
Ya, I actually have been using simply "SEE ID" for years even at the post office. However, it was at the post office where they refused to use it for the first time.

Legally, the card is void without being signed and the reason is this: The card acts as a legal document and when signed shows that you agree to the TERMS of the card. It is not used only for signature verification, but rather for showing that you accepted the terms of the card issuer.

If the merchant (in the case, the PO) took it to court because of fraud, Visa/MC would support the card issuer instead of the PO since the card was not signed. Put both on there, making SEE ID more prominent, and you'll be good.

But it does seem that the Post Office is one of the only establishments who obey this rule.

(Reply to this)

Thank goodness
(Anonymous)
2003-05-24 06:15 pm UTC (link)
It is about time people start realizing this. I am the manager at a customer service desk in a mall and for people to be able to purchase gift certificates we do require a signature and do not accept cards with see-id or a card that is not signed. I even go so far as to show customers printouts from visa, mc, amex and disc websites that state that the card is not valid unless signed and that see id is not a valid substitute. It is nice to see people who have the capacity to reason and that are not bull-headed people who just say "ITS MY CARD I DONT HAVE TO SIGN IT FOR YOU OR FOR ANYONE ELSE!!" I wish more people would realized that for their own protection they should sign their cards.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Thank goodness
(Anonymous)
2006-05-03 11:23 pm UTC (link)
Actually it's for the retailer's protection...it does nothing good at all for the consumer other than make it more difficult to dispute charges...

(Reply to this)(Parent)

VISA DEBIT
(Anonymous)
2003-07-06 05:13 pm UTC (link)
I HAD THE SAME FRUSTRATING EXPERIENCE AT THE POST OFFICE HOWEVER I WAS USING MY CARD AS A DEBIT CARD WITH SEE ID ON BACK AND VISA LOGO ON FRONT. IF I KNOW MY PIN CODE WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO SIGN MY CARD, WHERE IS THE LOGIC IN THAT? I DO UNDERSTAND HOWEVER THE TERMS AND AGREEMENT ISSUE-- WHICH MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

(Reply to this)

Now, that makes some sense
(Anonymous)
2003-07-23 09:20 am UTC (link)
I, too, went off on a rampage in the Post Office when my card was not accepted because of "SEE ID" on the back. But, the Post Office could not give me an answer other than it was for my own protection and that credit cards are invalid without a signature. I contacted my credit card issuer, and they offered an even less satisfactory response. But, I think Jesse may be correct in the explanation that the signature is a acceptance of the terms of the credit card. But, one question remains unanswered. If I can go to the USPS site and buy stamps online (for an extra fee, of course), why can't I use this same credit card in their office?

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Visa Check Card
(Anonymous)
2003-07-30 03:25 pm UTC (link)
Okay, I just ran into the same problem at the post office. More than anything it irritates me that if they're refusing the card as a visa because it's not signed ("for my protection") then the card should not be valid, period, and should not be accepted as an ATM either (which I was allowed to do). I suppose if you really wanted to push it you could write "see ID" in cursive so that when they tell you it's not valid you say "yes it is" and sign your CC receipt "see id". They're not allowed to judge handwriting so they'd have to accept it as verification right? :-)

Going by what my card says, I accept the terms by "using" the card, not by signing it.

One question: I too came back to my computer and tried to google for something official about this but I keep getting referred to your website. Where did you find it on the visa and mastercard websites?

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Visa Check Card
(Anonymous)
2003-08-01 10:00 pm UTC (link)
I found it quite easily on the VISA website. I'm having trouble finding it on any others, though VISA and MASTERCARD are owned by the same company I think.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: Visa Check Card
[info]malokai
2003-08-12 11:25 pm UTC (link)
mastercard is a consortium of banks.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Geezus
(Anonymous)
2003-08-01 09:54 pm UTC (link)
I work for AAFES and I think some places are just better about this than others in their training. I have to ask people all the time to sign their cards. It's insane.

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Signing back of credit card
(Anonymous)
2003-12-27 01:41 pm UTC (link)
Do both. Sign it and write "see ID". That way everyone is happy and you have directed the clerk to ask for ID.

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SEE ID IN ADDITION TO SIGNATURE
(Anonymous)
2004-01-08 06:54 pm UTC (link)
You must sign the back of the card, but as an added security you can write "see id" or "see drivers liscence". My bank credit card adviser years ago gave me that tip. But you must also sign the back of the credit card. That way even if they have your signature they must have additional id to match. Another tip is to have a signature that is hard to duplicate, like a doctor's scrawl, the harder it is to read the harder it is to duplicate (I got that tip from a securities expert in the military).

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Re: SEE ID IN ADDITION TO SIGNATURE
(Anonymous)
2005-03-08 02:11 pm UTC (link)
The point in not signing the back is so that, if someone steals your card, they won't know what your signature looks like and won't be able to forge it. If you sign it and then write "See ID" you are defeating the purpose behind not signing it in the first place. Few places actually check ID regardless of what you have written on the back. If a good forger gets your card and has a sample of your signature to copy, it would be much harder later to prove that you didn't actually make the purchase. If they don't have a sample of your signature, however, they would just have to write your name any-old-way and you could later prove that you didn't sign it.

The credit card companies require signatures not for "their customer's safety", but to cover their own butts. Your signature on the card is a legally binding statement that you have read and agree to the terms and conditions of the credit agreement...even if you haven't read the agreement, if you sign the card, you are legally testifying that you did. If the card company does something later, like raising your rates without notifying you, and it's in the agreement that they can do so, all they have to do is point out the signed card and say "he signed that he had read and understood the agreement". Contrary to anything they say, signing the card is in no way designed to protect you...it's designed to protect them.

Any of the merchants and/or vendors out there who insist on a signed card...well, I won't be frequenting your establisments. I'll go somewhere else to spend my money where they care more about their customer's safety and peace of mind than they do about covering their own butts. That includes the USPS. UPS and Fedex should send the USPS a nice thank you note for sending them more business by being so uncaring about their customers.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: SEE ID IN ADDITION TO SIGNATURE
(Anonymous)
2005-09-25 10:52 pm UTC (link)
One reason why credit cards must be signed is because the name on the front doesn't have to match the name on the back of the credit card. Only Amex. & Diners club must match all three what's on the front of the card and what you sign on the back and the receipt. All other cards read authorized signature. That means I can give my credit card to anybody I want too. Have them sign the back and it's good as gold to them. If I find your card with See ID I can sign the back and use my own ID. Also if you contest the charges at a later date without a signed card the merchant will lose. Its all for everyones protection.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: SEE ID IN ADDITION TO SIGNATURE
(Anonymous)
2005-11-07 09:08 pm UTC (link)
Oh my god. I wouldn't want someone like yourself in my establishment. We as small business loose alot of money to jerks like yourself who don't follow the rules. Sign your dam card. Do you argue with Motor vehicles or the insurance company or your local BJ's or Sams club membership. They are all in your wallet. We as business loose alot of money on chargebacks from people who forget they bought something from you. If any card holder proves they have a unsigned card your not responsible for your purchases. Accepting credit cards is costly for a small store. Store owners must follow Visa and MC rules for us as merchants. They do not have to pay us for charges used that are unsigned. It is required to make there card valid. Clerks in stores don't need the frustration of someone arguing with them about a signed credit card.
Just because some store clerks are not doing there job by checking signature corretly why argue with someone who is.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: SEE ID IN ADDITION TO SIGNATURE
(Anonymous)
2006-03-27 03:56 pm UTC (link)
MY MY ... another LIBERAL Idiot in Business..Duh....If a card is signed or not ,it still works in all Credit Card Machines ,AND you have to sign the Receipt slip for the Store you charge at ,you are one strange operator ,...

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: SEE ID IN ADDITION TO SIGNATURE
(Anonymous)
2006-05-03 11:28 pm UTC (link)
If you are illiterate you must have a booming business...

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: SEE ID IN ADDITION TO SIGNATURE
(Anonymous)
2007-12-15 03:05 am UTC (link)
What a stupid and illogical argument. Do your customers not sign a slip which you keep, when they purchase items? So, what is the difference whether there is a signature on the back of the card or not?

If you want identification, I'd be only too happy to show you my drivers license which is a photo ID with my signature on the back.

I flatly refuse to sign the back of my card for the very simple reason that anyone stealing my card will no exactly, how to forge my signature.

Grow up and get a life.

Ted Conway

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Just had this happen 10 mins ago
(Anonymous)
2004-04-24 08:32 am UTC (link)
im a front desk clerk at a hotel and some guy just came in and got mad when i wouldnt accept the unsigned card. he insisted all he needed was to show his ID but i didnt take it.

i wasnt sure if i was right or wrong at the time but i was pretty sure i was right since it said plainly "not valid unless signed"

anyways, here i am 10 mins later doing a yahoo search on "sign back of credit card" and finding this thread at livejournal, a site i've never been to :)

-jimmy

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[info]perm_den
2004-06-29 12:31 am UTC (link)
;]

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While the lawsuit claims that
(Anonymous)
2004-09-14 09:09 am UTC (link)
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NO sign C Card ...........,ask for I D
(Anonymous)
2006-03-27 03:51 pm UTC (link)
I do the same thing ,I write ""ask for I D "" I have had several Clerks say that is a good Idea,, they have seen others do the same thing ... I do like the waY THAT SOME gAS STATIONS ASK FOR THE zip CODE WHEN YOU USE THE CARD FOR gAS ...Perhaps the POSTAL PERSON WAS A REAL LIBERAL Union Idiot ..............sounds like it .....

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Re: NO sign C Card ...........,ask for I D
(Anonymous)
2006-06-11 03:02 am UTC (link)
Sorry folks.

Offering ID and writing "see id" INCREASES the risk of identity theft.

Each time you present your id, you are that much less anonymous.

You are well intentioned but you are making the problem worse.

Sign the damn card. If asked for ID, refuse to show it and report the merchant to Mastercard or Visa for violating their merchant agreement.

Do not ever "show id" unless you absolutely have to.



(Reply to this)(Parent)


dallas47_rocks
2008-02-09 02:25 pm UTC (link)
Hornswoggle,both my wife and I love seeing you on WWE Raw and this tid bit of information you gave in your post,is FANTASTIC. This ought to be posted everywhere now especially with I.D. theft being so high.

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