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Fri, Nov. 5th, 2004, 02:29 pm
A bit of rabble-rousing

Now you see what happens. You encourage me with a bit of love and understanding, and I go and get all political. :D

Check out my new icon. It's taken from Seebs's icon on Christian Forums. He's no longer allowed to post there, and yet there it is, in practically every post in General Apologetics. Rational and good-natured people are adopting his icon, whether they agree with him on issues or not. It makes me awfully happy to see that.

I'm not at my most coherent just now, so bear with me, k? It might take me a few tries to articulate my thoughts. Here goes:

The Enemy, right now, is unthinking reaction. Most visibly, Theocrats at home and abroad. But it occurs to me that all kinds of unthinking reaction benefits the Enemy. They want the world to be polarized, they want a black-and-white us-and-them world. The way to fight against that most basic of bigotries is not to declare yourself against them, though. By doing that, you just help them polarize the world. It makes it easier for them to fight you. Declaring for the opposite pole from the one they claim just means you've agreed to play by their rules.

The way you win is by playing to your opponent's weakness, not his strength. His strength, in this case, is his blind, unshakeable conviction. His weakness is that he cannot handle complexity. And we, my friends, can. We embrace complexity. It's interesting to us, it satisfies our intellects.

So I guess what that little fractal means to me is a shout out to all the people who refuse to see the world as good-and-evil, all-or-nothing. It's about what I was saying in my last post, true, about not letting the hatemongers co-opt the word Christianity. But it's also about a lot of other things. It's about how no issue is truly yea or nay. It's about being able to look at what's real instead of seeing what you want to see. It's about civil debate, friendly disagreements. Above all, trying to find solutions instead of excuses for righteous anger.

I think that's a good enough idea to start a meme over. Do you? I don't have a sound bite, unfortunately, or a slogan, which does tend to make an idea hard to spread, but isn't that kind of the point? Anyway, if you'd like to, please grab the fractal icon, or make one of your own -- the one Seebs used is at http://www.seebs.net/tmp/ferris_purple.png, but you could certainly get creative -- and share the idea around, get discussions started. The people who would rather yell than think are running this world into the ground. It's up to the thinkers to pull an end-run around them and get what needs doing done.

Fri, Nov. 5th, 2004 02:28 pm (UTC)
[info]seebs

If you want to know more about the situation at CF, there are two fascinating threads at Internet Infidels.

It says a lot about the police state mentality of CF that you have to go to an atheist site to have a meaningful discussion of how a Christian message board should be run.

Who here posts at CF?
What were you charged with?

Both of these are fairly interesting. There's some much older threads with names like "CF Outcasts" which grew to a thousand posts or so and got closed. A lot of very interesting discussion.

Underneath it all... This is a problem of dodgy foundations making for a crappy structure. There are a lot of very good people at CF, but the structure encourages abuses, and makes it hard for the good people to identify the abuses by the... Well, honestly, often by the people who are pretty good, too, but have a weak spot. Power corrupts. The environment of aggressive secrecy makes it much, much, worse.

Fri, Nov. 5th, 2004 08:51 pm (UTC)
[info]seebs

BTW, I got a warning reversed.

Mon, Nov. 8th, 2004 01:06 am (UTC)
[info]seebs

... And a new one tacked on.

I made some noise about an inappropriate moderator action. I was gone an hour later. Before someone cites forum rule 7 ("no discussing specific moderator actions in public forums"), my comments were limited to off-site (not covered by that rule) and a private message.

More importantly, what I got banned for was "flaming". Uh-huh. And the moderator who banned me? That very same one, who posted showing her very strong opinions in a thread, and then somehow managed to ban a user from the same group she'd just been attacking.

Fri, Nov. 12th, 2004 04:30 am (UTC)
[info]gomichan

I think it means, whatever you're doing, keep it up. :D

Sat, Nov. 6th, 2004 09:52 am (UTC)
(Anonymous): Slogans

CaDan/rigorist/steve checking in...
"I don't have a sound bite, unfortunately, or a slogan, which does tend to make an idea hard to spread, but isn't that kind of the point?"

It's kind of about making your own slogans. Those are the only ones you can live with.

Fri, Nov. 12th, 2004 01:30 am (UTC)
[info]gomichan: Re: Slogans

I suck at slogans. can I have some of that ice cream instead? :D

Fri, Nov. 12th, 2004 02:54 pm (UTC)
(Anonymous): Re: Slogans

"Can I have some ice cream instead?" sounds like a great slogan to me . . .

Sat, Nov. 13th, 2004 05:19 am (UTC)
[info]gomichan: Re: Slogans

Hey, you know, it kinda is... :D

Sat, Nov. 6th, 2004 09:53 pm (UTC)
[info]coffeedryad

Forgive me, I'm going to ramble a little. A lot, actually. This is stuff I wrote at Denny's and need to put somewhere, just to get it out. It's sort of a response, sort of... just rambling.
-----
So I've got a moral dilemma. On the one hand, there's a fairly solid possibility that I can get a job in Ireland and get out of here while the getting is good. I can leave, get to somewhere that doesn't have near as many religious bigots who hate the very fact that people like me exist, away from psychotic authority freaks who want power to force their agenda on everyone in the whole world. Sounds good, right?
On the other hand, leaving the country right now feels like I'm running away, giving up when I should be staying to fight and trying to fix this place up. After all, this is MY country - as Mark Twain said, not "right or wrong", but "when right, to kept right, when wrong, to be set right". I ought to be trying to wake people up and make them see everything that's wrong with hatred, intolerance, bigotry, imperialism, and tyranny. There's so many people trying to do this already that it seems almost treasonous to just run away and leave them to fight alone.
But what can I really do? Bush was elected and the anti-gay amendments were passed by solid majorities. People are ruled by TV and the major commercial media, and fringe opinions reach hardly anyone who isn't convinced already of their validity. People like Mumia Abu-Jamal and Leonard Peltier are in jail. Any attempt at a revolution would not only be unsuccessful, but bring further repression and crackdowns, and the media wouldn't even give it fair coverage. A John Brown today would be reviled for a terrorist and not a single voice in the mainstream press would dare suggest that he might have been right. And yet... shouldn't I do what is right, without caring whether or not I'll succeed or what the consequences to me might be? But if it makes things worse for everyone else, instead of better, is it really the right thing to do? How do I reach out to people and change their hearts and minds when they are truly convinced of their own righteousness nd truly believe that God wants them to oppress and destroy in His name?
Let me talk a bit about myself. I'm an agnostic, and more or less an atheist. I'm an anarchist. I believe that there are actions that are right and actions that are wrong, regardless of whether or not God exists, and that while God can make a supererogatory action obligatory, or command or forbid a morally neutral action, even He cannot make goodness wrong or badness right. (This is not to deny His omnipotence if He exists, it is merely pointing out that omnipotence does not mean the power to create a contradiction.) I believe that government is not inherently necessary for order and organisation, that corporations and bosses are not inherently necessary for production and trade, and that the first use of force - indeed, any use of force other than legitimate defense of self or others against force - is always and everywhere immoral. No kings, no bishops, no bosses, no wars!
So in between the depression and anger at the results of the election, and the selfdoubt and questioning I've been feeling as a result of that, I've been reading WAY more Transmetropolitan than is probably good for me. I SO want to be a Filthy Assistant. The courage to find the truth and tell it, no matter what - I WANT that. Where do I find it, and where do I find an audience. I want to stop being silent and indifferent.

Wannabe Magical Truthsaying Bitch,
Mallory

Sat, Nov. 6th, 2004 10:37 pm (UTC)
[info]seebs

Hmm. A few thoughts:

1. To the best of my knowledge, from reading up on it a lot, Mumia was GUILTY. Yes, he was framed. So was OJ. But he's probably also guilty. Not every anti-establishment cause is a good one.
2. When Jim Crow laws were passed, it wasn't the beginning of even worse discrimination; it was a last ditch attempt to preserve a social status quo that was changing.

In short... There is hope. That ammendments against "gay marriage" needed to be passed at all tells us that they will be overturned soon enough. I wouldn't hold my breath, but I'm in no hurry to escape.

Sun, Nov. 7th, 2004 03:19 pm (UTC)
[info]coffeedryad

Really? Well, I can hardly say my sources were unbiased or that I did much indepth research, so I'll take your word for it

And that's true, it's just that A, I was looking at things like that in conjunction with all the other nastiness like the USA Patriot act and the war and so on, and B, I take things way too seriously when I let myself take them seriously at all. Really need to find a balance.

Sun, Nov. 7th, 2004 10:00 am (UTC)
[info]anonymous_bosh

Okay, there's a lot of serious stuff in there, and yeah, I agree with a lot of it; I'd like to be more politically active, and help change people's minds. One of my friends had the idea of making pamphlets debunking myths about LBTG's and leaving them around more conservative campuses, and of writing letters to the editor about stuff like that.

But my first reaction to your post was - "DUDE! Job in /Ireland/! If you get it, can I come visit?"

Sun, Nov. 7th, 2004 03:20 pm (UTC)
[info]coffeedryad

Hee. Sure!

You're paying for your own plane ticket, though. *looks innocent*

Fri, Nov. 12th, 2004 01:34 am (UTC)
[info]gomichan

Well, as you can probably tell from what I said up there, I don't believe in revolutions. Revolutions are reactive, not proactive. Which is buzzword-ese for 'just because it sucks doesn't mean wrecking it would be better'.

As for what you can do, there's a whole fuck-ton of stuff you could do. Starting with just being yourself where people can see you. Hatred starts with ignorance. It's easy to say 'X people are immoral and I want to make them not exist' when you have no idea who X people really are. When the guy who fixes the copier and the chick with the pretty smile down at the superette are X people, though, it's a lot harder to want to do them harm.