Paul Phillips

Edit out hands that are boring, edit out hands that go on for days, but don't edit the hands themselves.

That's so low class, but so believable knowing the little I do about the production of television shows.

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Interesting. Is there any video of the full hand or did they just come into it at the turn?

I think that what you were saying about faking hands is further proved by an excerpt from Dutch Boyd in the "knowing deceptions" thread about him being called by ESPN to ask what hand he had.

I think the frames of him folding look like a typical sequence of someone folding pre-flop rather then post-flop. I don't think it's unreasonable that he was in the hand with Hellmuth when you see him from the hole card camera. How different would Hellmuth look if he was in a hand?

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I had wondered about that hand. I saw it about the time I was really learning how to play NL tournaments and it kind of screwed with my head, wondering if top notch players would fold that hand in that situation and why they would do so.

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long time reader, first time commenter. I miss Gabe Kaplan doing the show, it might be boring, but at least it was real instead of "entertainment"

This ESPN tournament of champions, I think your seat at this table is kind of deserved. And I could say that for a number of current players, no disrespect to those "chosen." I mean if it was a defacto "bring the guys who won bracelets this year at the WSOP for a showdown" I'd be cool. But it's not, it's the "stars" that the WPT on another network have made for the most part, and Phil Hellmuth, who I think is now 90 percent his gimmick of intimidating by thinking he's smarter.

I must be going soft, this year I did feel bad for Matusow. I didn't think he'd win, but I would have rather seen him humbled through being outplayed than outdrawn.

Though I still want him sitting next to Hellmuth at any televised event.

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Ideally they should bring the Top 10 (or 9) in the tournament leaderboard standings together for a tournament like that. That's what I was hoping for when I heard about the tournament of champions, but alas.

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Personally I think that any Invitational tournament which is selective about who is "invited" is totally against the spirit of the game. If you have the money, and there's an open seat, you can sit down - that's poker. If, as you suggest, there was some predefined qualification criterion that would be ok.

As for Tony D, I remember watching the hand and thinking wtf ? I don't know Tony myself, but I had heard from people whose opinions I respect that he was good. In my naivety, it never occurred to me for a moment that the hand was fabricated. Perhaps (speculation) he figures that now the hand has been on TV, he can maybe play off peoples' perception of it [which would of course be a false perception if the hand never happened that way].

I have been sceptical about the common assumption that "any TV coverage is good for poker" for a while. If ESPN really are fabricating hands, well that's just sick.

Andy.

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First line should say "subjective" rather than "selective". Sorry.

Andy.

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thanks phil, i never noticed the chips in his hand and then suddenly "disappearing" in the next frames. it just doesn't make sense and now there's some evidence.

maybe you should ask Tony D if he really had the JT.

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So will ESPN drag you into a back room and bar you from watching them now?

Their shameless 25th anniversary self-serving crap was bad enough, this is disgusting.

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I wouldn't be all that surprised if it turns out that ESPN had fabricated hands. I do, however, disagree with declaring the chips-out-of-nowhere event evidence. Jump cuts are extremely common in game show type situations. It often takes too long to show the event in it's entirety and/or is too difficult/not worth the effort to match up the timing perfectly for every cut between different camera angles. In fact, if you pay close enough attention, you could find dozens of other such occurrences in ESPN's broadcast of the WSOP, none of which are damning evidence. I wish I could say the same for the other points brought up though, which definitely deserve further thought.

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TY for that one Paul.

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Paul are you sure Chuck Hung played a hand vs Scotty, I thought he was playing it against the "Master"? I could be wrong.

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Phillips, what does ESPN stand to gain by splicing frames to show a different outcome to a hand? Sure, he's a huge queer, but ESPN--a legitimate network for sports coverage--wouldn't be party to any of what you're suggesting. But if the Hellmuthian bias is really eating at you, may I suggest emailing Gutshot and asking them to review their coverage of the day 2 featured table for 2003?

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They don't have anything to "gain" exactly, they just thought it wouldn't matter if they did it. I don't know why you think gutshot is privy to any information that the rest of us aren't. Since the 77 and JT hands were never shown down, the hole card cameras are the only source. If we can't trust ESPN's graphics then we have nothing.

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Showing fake hands like that is ridiculous. I can believe it was faked, because even to, or more likely especially to my less experienced poker eye the fold seemed rediculous. Another thing I wonder about is why in this years show they showed a hand between Harrington and Luske that was simply checked down. Did they have nothing better to show us? If they'll make stuff up for more excitement, then why do they keep in such a dull hand?

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Is ESPN the only station that pulls off this kind of stunt? The WPT could just as easily do it, as could FSN. I'm not sure if you can speak on the subject, but from watching the WPT on television did you recall any hands where they might have had in-hand editing? I never take poker on TV too seriously since TV is a business and they are there to make money through any means necessary. However...Hellmuth could have paid ESPN to fabricate that hand just to make him look really good...haha...

-Rich

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I just watched the "Best Bluffs" portion of the 2003 WSOP. One thing I noticed that was not brought up before. After Phil makes the raise on the turn, ESPN shows Tony D looking back at his TJ. With Tivo in slow motion it shows the dealer dealing down cards to the other players.
Whether they used the image of him looking at his cards from the beginning of that particular hand or not, they definately edited in footage that was not acurate.

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IN one of the pictures of the Tony D hand look at phil. You can barely see him. When phil is in a big pot like that he always sits in the same position with his hand on his mouth. He here is doing nothing like that. Looks like he is relazed

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