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Paul Phillips |
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Where is the commentary you found? I'd like to read it and go watch it again.
Also, from what I saw, you were having words with Abe. Your reactions to his comments seemed to be aimed at stuff he was saying off camera. Was he really any good or just very lucky to get where he did?
Oh, it's all over the place; search google for my name and gus's name and/or my name and the bellagio, and see rec.gambling.poker and www.twoplustwo.com.
I wasn't having words with Abe at all. I did make a comment when he talked gus into busting him, but it wasn't mean-spirited. He played very well in the tournament overall, though less so at the final table than before it. He made some mistakes that were born of inexperience but he has good instincts and a good future.
1) The first orbit, Abe made a small opening raise and Gus called in the small blind. Being priced in at 5-1 I called with KJo. The flop came J32 rainbow: Gus checked, I checked, Abe bet, and we both folded. I later found out that Abe had AA that hand. I could easily have lost many more chips.
Hey Paul. Can you elaborate on your thought process for this hand? You definitely got away from this hand a lot easier than other players would have. I realize that there's no need to get married to this hand with that board, but I doubt I would have been able to drop it right there. How much did he bet on the flop? Abe certainly is capable of moving at that pot without a hand (especially when checked to), or he might even be betting a legitimate hand which you can beat. Did you drop the hand because it was the type of hand that, if beaten, could be beaten badly? Did you have a pre-flop read of great strength and told yourself that you had to hit the flop very hard to continue playing? Based on Abe's play (based on what I know from watching the show -- I don't know him otherwise) and the action given, it seems difficult to lay down that hand on the flop to a bet (though you didn't say how large it was) when both Gus and you checked to the pre-flop raiser.
My intuition told me based on his opening raise size (60K into a 30K blind) and his slightly overbetting the pot after the flop (250K into about a 200K pot) that he was strong. On top of that he just "felt strong" to me.
The fact that he's CAPABLE of betting a worse hand there isn't really material, of course I MIGHT have had the best hand, the question was whether I figured to have the best hand and how much it would cost me to find out if I did from out of position. I didn't like the answer. I could have bet the flop but it was so early I hadn't established any credibility in my image and I really didn't want to face a raise. So I just gave it up. Given how much shit I got for folding the best hand a few times at the bike, it would have been nice if they'd illustrated that folding strong hands is occasionally correct.
It would have made for good TV too.
You're right that just because you *could have* had the best hand doesn't mean you have to (or should) play it. I'm sure you would have played differently if it seemed like Abe was trying to pick up too many pots, but you know that and obviously had a better feeling for the context of the situation than we did (having played with Abe before getting down to six which is the point at which we join in -- even though this hand wasn't even televised). I guess it's especially a situation where you don't want to mess around where you were able to see the flop cheaply, but you are now facing a sizable bet on the flop. Did you have about a little over a million in chips at this point? (I don't recall, and I deleted the episode.) How much did Abe have left after betting 250K?
I think we both had slightly over a million.
And that's for either season....
when Abe is trying to figure out Dewey's hand, and says "I know your hand is good, but just how good is it?" And then Paul responds..."That's poker in a nutshell for you." Sometimes the truth is funnier than anything else.
All I know is that your chips breed like crazy during every commercial break. Nice trick.
I guess you Googled through some of the huge amount of RGP refuse regarding that TT hand. I actually read about the hand there before I ever saw the episode. Personally, from the skewed perspective WPT gives us, I thought it was an excellent call on Gus' part. Sure, if he was playing it weakly and hoping to dribble up to 2nd place, maybe he could have laid it down. But I don't believe that's how he gets as far as he gets. He felt he had the best of it for that hand (albeit only slightly as it turned out) and he decided to run with it. I agree he probably not would have had a much better spot later to make his stand with fewer chips.
That said, I think your raise was also an excellent move. It puts it to Gus, and speaking from a strictly tournament cash prize EV perspective, it makes calling somewhat marginal. A lot of lesser players (i.e., RGP armchair quarterbacks) would have laid down the TT in that position. It ended up working out for you, and that's poker. I don't know how far you looked into the RGP "coverage", but a number of people pointed out to the other loudmouths.. "If the queen hadn't come on the river, Gus is a genius, and Paul Phillips is an idiot. Since it dd, Paul Phillips is a genius, and Gus is an idiot." And for a large number of the posters there, I believe that really would be their thought process. But I don't think either of you are idiots, coz (for the most part) idiots don't make the final table of those huge events. I guess, since poker is a game of such incomplete information, that it is possible for people to make good moves that might seem mutually exclusive. 1) The first orbit, Abe made a small opening raise and Gus called in the small blind. Being priced in at 5-1 I called with KJo. The flop came J32 rainbow: Gus checked, I checked, Abe bet, and we both folded. I later found out that Abe had AA that hand. I could easily have lost many more chips. I would probably not have been able to fold the KJ there... I would have at least seen a turn, I imagine. Though I guess it depends how much Abe bet there. I guess this is why some people call KJ a trap hand though. I don't know how to lay down hands like that yet. While you could have easily lost many more chips there, I imagine you could also have made a lot of chips if the flop bet was small and the turn card was favorable, by trapping the AA... though checking pokenum, it seems you were much more of a dog than I would expect (18.4% EV for you post-flop). Also, I have seen no comments about what I thought was the absolute worst play at the final table, and that was when Mel Judah moved all-in with A6o. I'd have to watch it again, but I guess I would just say it's probably (in my case at least) because nothing about Mel Judah's play during that show stood out to me as particularly interesting or well-done. In fact, he did some things that made me think "wtf is he doing?"... and that hand is probably one of them, but hell if I remember. I wish there was some way to get unedited footage of all the hands so we could see the final table with an untinted lens. As it is, things like the constant all-in facade infuriate me. Granted, sometimes they edit the show to be more amusing, and I think that someone in the editing booth really has it out for Phil Hellmuth. But for instance, in that same episode with Hellmuth, they show Mohamed double up on Hoyt, then they come back to the next hand and Mohamed's stack is right back where it was before he doubled up, leaving us asking "wtf??" /joe
"... someone in the editing booth really has it out for Phil Hellmuth."
Someone? During WPT staff meetings they bicker over what brand of pencils to buy and whether the janitorial staff deserves a $.05/hour raise, but EVERYONE ALWAYS agrees regarding picking on hellmuth. Even if you reduced the capacity of the editing booth to two persons and began by inserting the pope, you'd still require a coin to guess who was responsible for his "shabby" treatment. Someone! Ha ha.
just one question... you sensed he was strong, was this before or after the flop? if it was before the flop, i am really sort of wondering why you would see it at all with KJo. i don't know what you're hoping to do with it if you think he's got a very strong hand. you flop a K or J, you could still be beat obviously. even if you hit two pair, it's not a mortal lock.
maybe i just misunderstood and you just smoothcalled out of the BB with it to see a flop and felt after that that he was stronger than you thought? just curious. also, i guess i was the one who said gus "tilt called" i believe. i guess i didn't mean "tilt called" like i said, but it seemed he was a bit upset at your decision to go over the top. he acted for a while like he was sort of getting a bit on edge from your aggressive play at him (from what we got to see--the J2 reraise when you flopped top pair against his check raise and then the AQ over the top of his 1010). it seemed like he hadn't sat at a final table on the WPT where that had happened, where people weren't affraid of him (as you definitely weren't) and it bothered him a bit. maybe that's what the cameras captured and the way i interpreted it, but that's why i felt he sort of called without really considering the implications (which he of course did). as for the hand, i am pretty surprised you would be so quick to have done the same thing. i will probably never agree with your stance on that he should have called, but that's mostly because i would be more concerned with picking a better spot to win some pots, as opposed to going up against the only person at the table who can bust me with a hand that to me is at best a cointoss favorite. some say you owuldn't play AA or KK that way, but IMO, if you have one of those hands against gus and he is making a raise at the pot as such, that's the best move--because most agree you should try and promote more action with both of those hands. but hey, you were sipping the champagne (or was it anhesier?) with mike sexton at the end of the show and i was on the couch watching it, haha. also, i'm curious, how often WAS dewey moving in? obviously that's the only move we saw. and the last episode he was on, in costa rica, he played rediculously tight too and then prety much only moved all in. i didn't really understand it, because i felt he's a good enough player that he could outplay most everyone on the flop. what was play actually like against him heads up? and that AJ v KT is rather interesting. is there a reason you didn't raise it up preflop? as for the hand with 89 v A6o, i agree 100%--i thought mel played pretty crappy on the hands we got to see at least. i didn't get this move at all. sure, he's short stacked and has to make a stand, but with a hand that like you said is usually drawing to 3 outs? i sort of wondered why you called, but i figured the pot odds were high enough you had to--and you had a decent chance at knocking someone out. the A10 hand he played, i really wondered why he called on the turn. i don't know what he was hoping on doing on the river, because even if he'd caught a 10, or an ace, would he call? i felt it was pretty apparent he was behind (even though we have the cameras, it would seem way too suspicious to me to simply call on the turn with that hand. i enjoy reading your comments. i hope you make another final table. this has definitely been a great season thus far--and the bellagio episode was the best yet.
Hey asshole, some of us have a good memory for
things idiots say about us, especially when they make shit up that we never said and put it in quotes anyway. If that was "all you need" then why are you polluting my livejournal with questions, you fucking hypocrite? Get lost.
haha, ok, don't accept my apology then.
i have no reason to hate you. i thought your call was dumb in that hand, but whatever. like i said in my last post here, you always had a holier than thou attitude on RGP that really pissed me off. but it doesn't bother me in the least.
Just another member of the peanut gallery...
I was curious of a few things. First of all, it seemed like you were quite talkative/chatty at the final table. The "action flop" commentary on the final hand, your reponse to Abe's attempt to pickup tells on Dewey, etc. Are you usually this chatty and were you that talkative throughout the early rounds? There's some varying styles seen on WPT to the totally silent/don't even know they're there to the always talkative/amiable types. Is there some strategy in being that talkative or do you just like lightening the mood? (seems like the latter) Also, I'm always interested in the early round aspect of the multi-table tournaments. The final 6 of the World Poker Tour I don't find nearly as enjoyable as watching the progress through the rounds as seen at ESPN's WSOP and FOX's Sands coverage. Did anything interesting from your perspective happen during the full final table or the rest of the early rounds? You mentioned playing with Gus early on, how much did you play with the final 6 in the early rounds? I thought I saw you in the spectator crowd during the Paris WPT as well. Among the hundred other typical WPT poker-pro finalists. Seems popular to kibitz those final tables. Thanks.
I am typically that chatty. Actually I am typically chattier. It's not strategic, it's just me trying to have a good time... it'd suck to be all worked up about the magnitude of the occasion and be unable to enjoy it while it's happening.
An awful lot of stuff happens before the final table, so that's a bit too much of an essay question for me. I posted a few hands on rgp. You did not see me in the crowd at paris, as I didn't go.
I enjoy watching on the WPT and reading your analysis.
Like the other's, I couldn't have folded the KJo after the flop, but that's a huge weakness in my game. When someone slow plays a big pair or flops a set with a small pair I pay them off all too often, even though I suspect I'm beat. Often I feel there is too much in the pot to walk away from. But if you're second best, that really doesn't matter, does it? I do have a different sort of question for you. The WPT is making major money, I imagine. The players are obviously the key ingredient of their production. Shouldn't the WPT be adding money to the pool or paying significant appearance fees? Personally, I wouldn't want people being able to see my uncalled cards without some remuneration. Perhaps it's in the works, but I'm surprised that their aren't any invitation only single table events. How many millions would watch you, Gus, Phil Helmuth, Phil Ivey, Johnny Chan, or any of another dozen poker personalities play for a major prize?
I hear this particular speculation a lot, but there's no magic, someone has to make it happen. Until/unless someone does, people will play in the tournaments that exist, in the way they exist. Poker players are not exactly well known for their organizational abilities.
It's ironic that you posted this message, because I have given it a lot of thought lately. I am not a professional poker player, but I am a financial manager, and I see the concerns people could have about "feeling used" etc. Granted, nobody is going to feel sorry for Paul Phillips, "Mr. Dot Com," millionaire, guy who wins million dollar tournaments "for the fun of it," etc. However, it does not matter how much money Paul Phillips or anyone else has, it's a matter of fairness. Competition WILL bring (and has brought) higher pots, and appearance fees are not too far down the road. Pro golf has gone in this direction, Tiger Woods can "just show up" and make a million.
Patience, my friends. Is it good or bad for the game? Not sure, but it's coming, like it or not. The more popular poker becomes, the more the top players will become recognized, the more they will sell their books, the more they will play in higher stakes tournaments, etc. The top guys are already benefitting by the poker boom. Doyle Brunson's book has recently been near the top of the Amazon book sales list. This was right after he appeared on WPT and they hyped Doyle and his book. Should he pay WPT a fee for promoting him? The point is, it's a two way street, and some will capitalize on their fame, some will exploit it and overexpose themselves, and some will be happy to play in bigger pots. It's unlikely there will be a union or anything like that, but this is America, you never know!!! Good luck Paul, and most of all, enjoy your success. I am in the very early stages of developing yet another tv poker show, and I was hoping Paul could assist me. And back to the original post, won't you be on TV on Super Bowl Sunday?
"Every other hand I play differently. AJ and AT are not in the mix, nor are 99 and 88"
What do you think you would have done with those holdings? It's hard to imagine you'd be tossing them in a 3-handed situation with Gus raising on the button but it doesn't surprise me that you wouldn't want to push in with them. So what are viable plays with those hands? I thought the final 6 was well played and very entertaining, both for its poker and its human content. Well done. One thing I was surprised by (well not really because I knew from RGP that the final hand was K8 vs 77) was your folding QTs. I suppose it's hard for someone who can see the hole-cards to be objective when he knows that QTs was almost sure to win the tournament there, but I genuinely think I--and many others--would have called in that spot, especially given the frequency with which Dewey was moving in (on RGP, if I remember correctly, you credited Dewey with "adjusting very well, moving in well over half the time" or words to that effect). Shane
It's hard to know what I'd do without being there, but with 99 and 88 I'd have been more likely to call and try to hit the flop. AT I would probably have mucked, it's big three-handed but not big enough for me to either move in or try to play it out of position against gus, and I don't want to just call with it. AJ would have been a real decision. I might have mucked it too.
The QTs wasn't that tough a laydown. I was holding dewey off OK and I wasn't inclined to double him up easily if he had K4 or something. I wanted to either get the money in first or hold a hand that had a stronger chance of being the favorite.
I talked briefly to howard lederer concerning how to combat hansen and it seemed to be "Play the Juanda Style." Blow him out B4 the flop. You, however didn't seem to play that strategy too much, although the AQ hand among other did appear to. However, your J2 hand was obviously not that at all; you showed you were willing to get down in the dirt with a marginal (at best) hand after the flop. Care to comment briefly on your overall strategy as far as combating Hansen went. How about if you got it heads up(knocked Dewey out)?
My strategy was mostly to get maximum leverage out of my position. At present I have no time for more detail, but you can probably imagine.
If we'd ended up heads up I would probably have said a silent prayer because I'd be down to only having position half the time.
"... they left out two hands that I thought were key to the result.
"1) The first orbit, Abe made a small opening raise and Gus called in the small blind. Being priced in at 5-1 I called with KJo. The flop came J32 rainbow: Gus checked, I checked, Abe bet, and we both folded. I later found out that Abe had AA that hand. I could easily have lost many more chips." Priced in at 5-1 to flop two pair or better? Wouldn't Abe bet often in that spot? Or did he reek of strength while betting? --Steve Brecher
Yeah, he would probably almost always bet that flop. I just had a feeling, mostly based on his overbetting the pot by about 25% on such an early hand. I could have bet the flop, but I knew I wasn't going to call a raise so I decided to surrender early and wait for position rather than expose any more chips.
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