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Quit Comics: The One With the Ass Grab

  • Jan. 8th, 2006 at 8:00 PM
roaring dragon, spore, monster friday
Ronee Garcia Bourgeois is the VP of Friends of Lulu, and columnist at Buzzscope. Two weeks ago, "What a Girl Wants" was about a young female comics professional who was assaulted by a male professional. After reading that, I wrote to Ronee for particulars, and agreed to talk about my own experiences for this week's WaGW.

Also talking to Ronee were Colleen Doran and Beatrix Kyle.

Let the fan hit the shit.

A side note: I thought everyone this week would be naming names. I look like the sucker who stood there staring into the sun while everyone else took a step back after the request for volunteers to take a step forward. That's okay, though. This is part of why I quit.

Comments

[info]dreamling wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 02:55 am (UTC)
it's all so disheartening. :(
[info]roseseule wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 03:09 am (UTC)
As someone who used to run a convention, stories like this are depressing...not because I am upset that people would come forward, but that the comics industry is DECADES behind other businesses. I remember one convention where my g/f at the time and I sat with Colleen and listened to her stories, just being shocked by the whole thing. Of course, one of the reasons the comics world is so far behind the times is because of crap like this, and if they would have let the type of business changes that the rest of the world went through in the 80's and 90's in the door, maybe they wouldn't be struggling not to become radio drama or 8-Track tapes.

I'm glad that the issue is out in the open now, and ANYONE who blames the victim is the lowest form of pond scum.
[info]hangingfire wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 03:53 am (UTC)
Gawd, disheartening is a mild word for it. It's depressing as hell to hear that this kind of crap is still going on.

I will say, though, that I'm glad that you, Ronee, Colleen, and Beatrix are talking about this. It's a lot of dreck to wade through, but maybe talking about it now will make things better in the future.
[info]hangingfire wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 04:04 am (UTC)
(and by "future" I mean "as soon as is humanly possible".)
[info]mrcaxton wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 06:56 am (UTC)
Gosh, I sure miss comics.

......


......
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 07:10 am (UTC)
Not me. I just wish I'd felt so free to speak before I quit, but I'm glad I can now.
[info]mrcaxton wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 07:17 am (UTC)
True.
The freedom to call the otaku n00bs "whiny little gits" without getting chastised by the Marketing staff at DH is nice.
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 07:30 am (UTC)
It must be.
I was told by a former marketing go at Image (forget the name) to change my FAQ on my old website so that the first answer on it wasn't "No." (As in, "Will you sign and return my book?")
No less a light than the great Andrew Loomis said the same in the back of his Illustration book, sixty years ago!

[info]ldragoon wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 08:12 am (UTC)
You gave a great interview!
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 03:45 pm (UTC)
Thanks. I find brief, to the point, and emphasized with "fuck" is the best way to go.
[info]sclerotic_rings wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 02:46 pm (UTC)
Sadly, I don't expect anyone else to name names: part of the problem is still that everyone's afraid that standing up will make them "troublemakers". I see that in literary SF all of the damn time, where writers who've been screwed by magazine and book publishers keep quiet because they're terrified that they'll ruin their chances with a "big" publisher if they bitch about the Cat Piss Men. I keep explaining that being listed as "difficult" by the half-assed guarantees that you'll go places with real publishers (I had more published after the editor of Science Fiction Eye swore that he'd tell everyone in the genre of how difficult I was after I quit than when I was working for the dogfelcher), but everyone's still afraid to stand up and tell the Cat Piss Men in positions of power to shut up.
[info]kynn wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 07:37 pm (UTC)
You did good.

I find it sadly telling that Colleen didn't mention her harasser, and then in the comments there someone is naively going on about how harassment couldn't possibly have been done by such a nice editor. :(
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 07:55 pm (UTC)
As Kady Mae points out, there were people who had no such problems.

I met the fellow in question, Julius Schwartz (I'll say his name because it's an open secret, so open it was in The Comics Journal, and I'm tired of the he-who-must-not-be-namedness of it all), in 1992, introduced to him by writer Lewis Shiner, and saw him again in the mid-90's when he introduced me to Murphy Anderson at Wondercon.
I am saying NOTHING about the veracity of Colleen's story, now. I am saying I had no problem, and that's ALL I'm saying.
For all I know, Larry Lankford grabbed my ass and it was the first time he'd ever behaved that way and the last.
[info]kynn wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 08:15 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I mean, it's in Wikipedia for cryin' out loud.
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 08:43 pm (UTC)
That's right, it is.
[info]kynn wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 08:45 pm (UTC)
Come to think of it, you're NOT in wikipedia. Your legions of fangirls and fanboys, most of whom have crawled up your butt, should get started on that.

I would but hey I am kinda busy. :)
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 10th, 2006 07:44 am (UTC)
I am not in Wikipedia. I haven't had time to darken that particular room.
[info]laylalawlor wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 08:46 pm (UTC)
I just wanted to say that I'm glad to see you (and the others) speaking out; I know it's gotta be hard and I also know it'll hopefully make the world a little better for the rest of it, so ... it is appreciated. Kudos.
[info]laylalawlor wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 08:46 pm (UTC)
... for the rest of US, I mean. Stupid uneditable comments.
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 9th, 2006 09:37 pm (UTC)
I read what you meant. Thanks!
[info]ani_bester wrote:
Jan. 10th, 2006 04:27 am (UTC)
Umm wow, I tend to stay outta the comic information loops so this was the first I'd heard of this, which made for a very interesting first post to read.

I'd actually just dropped by to say hello because you used to shop at my Dad's comic shop and I was wondering if you recalled that. It was a tiny little shop called "Big D Book and Comics" that was perpetually a mess.

That's how I first heard of you. Dad through some comics at me that youd done and said, hey, read these, she used to shop here.
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 10th, 2006 04:35 am (UTC)
I remember! I loved your dad's shop! He had the funniest signs for things, and it smelled so good (if you like paper, which I do).
I also recall one time when I was in there and some dude was retelling a D&D adventure that ended in an unpleasant and off-color note, and you dad got severe and said, "None of that in here!"

Your dad would let me layaway things because I was poor college student. It'd take me ages to pay them off. One of them was Art of the Dark Crystal, which I still have. Your dad's shop was a treasure.

I have seen you once, and that was in a picture in the newspaper for an article about how your folks converted a duplex. You were a wee thing in your baby swing.

How is your dad? What is he doing now?
[info]ani_bester wrote:
Jan. 10th, 2006 04:49 am (UTC)
My dad still has the wierdest signs for things *L*

He's doing pretty well for someone teaching in the Dallas School District (ie: hell). He struggles a lot with that because he loves to teach but the kids he teachest don't want to learn (17 year old 9th graders yay).

But, he's writing a lot more poetry now, and I'm hoping he'll write a sci-fi story for this amature competition (we have a deal that if he enters a story I'll enter art).

I'll tell him you remeber that book! He'll be thrilled.

Dad dug up the bootleg LotR copies that came out in the 30s or 40's. It always amazes me that he'll give that stuff away or sell it as cheaply as he does.

He and my brother actually run though shop through e-bay now. I think it's scimoc comics or something.

The landlord made him move the shop to the store right next door and we're pretty sure a strip joint (or drug den) opened up in the area our shop used ot be, so I think Dad doesn't want to encourage kids to be around that by having a comic shop open there. -_-

The landlord is a whole other level of evil.
[info]remnant299 wrote:
Jan. 10th, 2006 08:23 am (UTC)
I know I'm going to get flamed for this.

A week ago my friend and I went to the comic shop. It my favorite thing to do with her on Saturdays becuase we are both big comicbook fans.

Anyway while we were there she got into a discussion about women in comics with another female customer. I brushed them off at first figuring they were talking about a manga or something. Anywat 45 minutes later we leave with our new comics(Ironically she bought All Star: Batman 2&3 and Sin City and enjoys them both.

I asked her about the discussion she was having and apparently they were talking about women in comics. The person she was talking to believed women treated terribly while my friend is okay with it. I'm not going to try to understand why becuase she can come here and answer that question in her own words on her own time. Basically I found this blog and many others and after reading through most of it I must say.

I really disagree in a lot of area of your logic.

Now before you just ignore me and see me as part of the problem try to understand my view.

1. You are really passionate about your views on how women are drawn. I can understand that. Many believe women are always displayed as beautiful and dangerous which is probably false.( I say 'probably' becuase all people and beautiful and everyone is dangerous.)

However what I don't support is the belief that making characters overweight or pudgy or just going out of your way to make a charactre not attractive would improve anything. I think when you are seeing an entertainment format as big and general as comics are you see them imitate most of the people around. Most people are skinny and attractive looking. Not the other way around. I live in a fairly suburban city and see all kinds of people. I don't think comics are that much off reality when it comes to a woman's body.

2. "Fanservice" A word that really gets people riled up for the good and bad reasons. I have no problems with fanservice if it fits a character.

For example a charatcre like Catwoman would zip down her leather shirt slowly or keeping it slightly open. She is confident and independent in my opinion. As they say " If you got them, flaunt them." especially if you can use it to an advantage.

If anything manga and anime are extremely perverted in terms of fanservice. I can't believe Vicki Vale( Beautiful Seductress Vicki Vale) pissed you off , but all the crappy teases and ful blown nude shots in some manga are allowed by you and a lot of your followers. very hypocritical IMHO.

[info]remnant299 wrote:
Jan. 10th, 2006 08:25 am (UTC)
Part 2
First of al let me apologize for writing so much. I tend to overwrite my initial purpose and ndinga bunch of time compressing my work.

Finally I get to the part that actually made me write this comment. The All Star: Batman issue. Personally I find the miniseries to be trainwreck, but not becuase of a pantyshot.

First you completely blow off the situation having a bearing on the content. She's drunk, thinking about a man who beauty "could melt skin." She is obviously in a sexual mood. WIth that in mind the thought of her being in underwear makes sense. For all we know she could have( I don't mean to offend) "masturbated" before or right after that scene.

Second you take a smidge of frank miller script showing no other parts of it or linking to a website that fuly contains it. You basically cut and pasted a small part out that fitted your argument. Frank could have easily wroted

Ha hA. Kidding Jim. Anyway make sure she looks really attractive and sexual to push across the mood she wants for tonight.

Frank could have easily went back on a more professional track. However your readers wouldn't know becuase you basically censored the entire script so it wouldn't interrupt your argument.

If Frank however really does write like a sexist douche on his scripts( That are meant to be private most of the time. I am not saying you stole it or anything. Just that this isn't the kind of stuff that consumers are meant to see.) then that is his own buisness. You pulling out his script and using it to flame him is like me displaying the comments in this blog as sexist against men( Yes their are some comments here that I believe were offensive towards men. I had never seen you post anything quite like that. but some of your readers do. Practice what you preach.)

I didn't mean to post this long article just to flame you. Merely to stir discussion and let you see it from the eyes of someone who doesn't always agree with you and (most importantly) is male. And damn proud of it:)
[info]divalea wrote:
Jan. 10th, 2006 02:35 pm (UTC)
Re: Part 2
Dear Remnant,
Thank you for registering yesterday to post.

I appreciate the time you took to type all that out. In answer, I refer you to this post, which explains things pretty clearly, even if you read only the title.

Thanks.

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