dandelionreport: What can I do to make people -want- to stay and listen to me perform?

The Dandelion Report (

dandelionreport) wrote,
@ 2004-08-27 08:07:00

What can I do to make people -want- to stay and listen to me perform?
Cleverly using some of the suggestions kindly offered by filkers about how to get a turn singing in an open filk circle, Grizelda starts performing. As she does, however, she notices several people getting up from the circle and leaving the room. After she finishes performing, she is also disappointed by the polite but unenthusiastic response. (see URL below for full scenario)

"What can I do to make people -want- to stay and listen to me perform?" Grizelda wonders.

Please post your suggestions by using the form at the bottom of:
http://www.electricpenguin.com/filking/columns/filkfaq/archives/002591.html
(your answer will appear automatically)

or post your reply below.

Thanks for your help in making the Dandelion Report FilkFAQ a useful resource for the filking community!

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braider
2004-08-27 05:39 am UTC (link)

Sad to say, sometimes people are on their own schedules, and you *can't* make them stay. Mostly, though, the only thing that will make people really want to stay is improving your performance skills. These include, but are not limited to:

Getting rid of the attitude that it's Your Turn, So People Have to Listen to You Now. Strange, but true. It's one of the things that will drive people away most quickly.
Use a reasonable tempo. Slowing a song down too much loses your audience. To find out if you're doing so, tape yourself. Come back to the tape a week later and listen to it; decide if it's something you would want to listen to.
Use SHORT introductions if you must use one at all. If the audience gets the sense that you're wasting their time, you've lost them.
Practice your instrument. There are a number of "little" things you can do to make your guitar/mandolin/bazouki playing more interesting than a steady, flat strum.
Enunciate clearly. It's really boring to listen to a song when you can't understand half the words.
Don't wait for people to tell you how bad you sound. When you have that attitude, it shows. It cuts you off from the audience, puts you in a little box, and keeps you from achieving the connection necessary for a good performance.
Most importantly, put ENERGY into your performance. I have heard perfectly good singers sound perfectly boring simply because they were having an off day and weren't putting their energy into their performance.

This noted, EVERYONE has bad days. One song that I nailed at Marcon and which I tend to play too quickly I played waaaay too slowly at Confluence. It happens to everyone. Don't ever beat yourself up for not doing well enough. Performance is a thing that develops over time - just keep an open mind, and keep practicing.

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phillip2637
2004-08-27 10:57 am UTC (link)

Somewhat off the main topic....

"Use SHORT introductions if you must use one at all."

Being fairly new to filk (and how much longer can I keep using that line?), I wonder about this one...in particular the "if you must" part. I enjoy getting a sense of context for a song. There are some that don't need it, sometimes the logic of "followers" is enough introduction, and turning the song into a footnote to its background story seems like a very bad idea. :-) But I feel that having a piece "set up" for me adds interesting flavour in circles that's not common in concerts and very rare on recordings.

I suppose the counter-point is that, in an informal setting, if someone cares about a song's history, they can always ask later. (??)

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braider
2004-08-27 11:31 am UTC (link)

Most of the intros I've seen given in filk circles have nothing to do with what the song is based on - usually, the inexperienced performer will spend a minute describing their nervousness, apologizing for their poor voice/lack of guitar skill, etc. These are things which clue the audience not to like the song. This is bad, but it's the way humans work - if we expect to be pleased, it's likely that we will be. If we expect something to be tedious, it very likely will be.

Even if your intro is the background of the song, keep it short. For example, "This song is based on Robin McKinley's short story, _The Stone Fey_", and then launch into it. This takes about 5 seconds. Or: "This song is based on the Fionvar Tapestry series by Guy Gavriel Kay. It takes place just as the various armies of the world are converging to do battle on the evil god Rakoth Maughrim." This takes about 12 seconds to say, and adds a lot to the understanding of the song.

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oreouk
2004-08-27 05:49 am UTC (link)

And here we have the non-PC answer

Be honest with yourself about your talent level. If your voice is not great (yet, as most people's voices do improve the more often they use them) then it's best to stay away from long songs, regardless of how much you enjoy singing Horse Tamer's Daughter.

Before you go to the circle (or even the con) practice the songs you'd like to sing in a quiet environment so you can hear what you are doing with it and develop better control. As above, practice does improve, and people are more likely to stay and/or appreciate your song if you're not missing half the notes and if they can hear the words and understand what you're singing.

Singing along to a guitar helps you to stay in tune, so if you don't play yourself but have a friend who does (or the nerve to ask someone you don't know all that well to accompany you) then it's worth it (though again, it's a good idea to do a run through with them (outside the filk room) before starting so you both pace the music the same. People who are used to singing acapella (say, in the bathroom ) can develop their own feel for pace and this can cause accompanist confusion even if you're singing a well known song).

Usually if the room has developed a theme or a mood it's better to try and sing songs that keep with that. This is one of those unwritten rules that it's usually better to leave to the more popular performers to break, as people will more readily follow their diversions.

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braider
2004-08-27 05:57 am UTC (link)

*grin* I would argue that you shouldn't sing a song as long as Horsetamer's Daughter in a filk room at all, unless it's a theme filk for Really Long Ballads or there's some other forewarning that a really long song will be performed. The only time I've *ever* sung that at a convention was at the 2002 Pegasus concert, and that was with two stellar musicians backing me up and doing complex and interesting stuff with the accompaniment.

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mnemex
2004-08-27 06:57 am UTC (link)

Heh. Generally, yes.

I've sung HTD a few times at a con:
The time late-night at ICON where I was more than half the performance, and none of the Vassarites had heard it.
In a group sing-along at Confransisco (in the Leslie Fish Sin Filk).

And, I think, one other, similar time -- it's clearly not something you want to do all the time even if you -are- a good performer with a good voice.

(OTOH, HTD is not -that- long if you keep it to a reasonable pace -- I think it usually runs about 5 minutes when I sing it at my speed).

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	it_aint_easy 2004-08-27 09:39 am UTC (link)
	Five minutes? You must either fly along like Danny Kaye or else skip a lot. :{)} I clocked Julia Ecklar at 13 minutes for that song, and it's hard to imagine trimming off 60% of the time. I wouldn't say she sings it slowly. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	mnemex 2004-08-27 09:43 am UTC (link)
	A -lot- depends on how many choruses you put in; I tend to run about threeish (one near the beginning, one during the exposition, one right before the fight begins, and the changed chorus at the end). But the thing is, I -would- say that Julia sings it slowly; there's a huge range between the pace she uses and "too fast". Now, PQR, -that- I sing fast! (Reply to this)(Parent)

catalana
2004-08-27 09:30 am UTC (link)

Following on with the non-PC answers: it's also much easier to get by with weak performance skills if you have a funny song than if it's serious. I don't know why; maybe because people want to stay and hear the next clever line or silly joke. Maybe it's because if you're laughing, you're generally in a good mood and thus are more forgiving of slight defects in performance. But it's definitely something I've noticed.

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mnemex
2004-08-27 09:47 am UTC (link)

To a degree.

I think I've walked out of a -lot- more "funny" songs than serious ones (OTOH, I may be atypical). OTOH, some stuff may have to do with the fact that a lot more serious songs are too long.

I do think guaging length to your impressions of your quality is one of the most important rules -- and this includes chitter-chatter! And introductions! Think about whether taking up -that- bit of more time adds that much to your performance, and go from there; you want to improve the quality of what you're doing, but reducing the length to the "right" length (if they're out of bounds, obviously) can help a lot, for both serious and funny stuff.

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tigertoy
2004-08-27 12:32 pm UTC (link)

One point that I don't think the responses up to now have given enough emphasis to is selecting material well. This has three parts: choosing a good song, choosing a song that fits you well, and choosing a song that fits the moment.

In choosing a song, there are some Grizeldas out there who insist on performing their own material. It's great that Grizelda has managed to write a song of her own, but she needs to ask herself if it's actually good enough to be worth sharing with other people, and be honest about the answer. As a listener (which I am far more of the time than I am a performer) I would much rather hear Grizelda sing a good song that someone else wrote than a bad one she wrote herself, and when she sings a bad song, I can't feign much enthusiasm in my reaction just out of my desire to encourage her to keep trying. Lest anyone deliberately misunderstand me, I'm not saying that Grizelda shouldn't sing her own song unless she really thinks it's better than last year's Pegasus winner. Her song doesn't have to be great, but it should actually be good.

Choosing a song that fits well has several parts. First, Grizelda should forget about any song (whether her own or another's) that she doesn't genuinely like and also genuinely believe is a good song. Singing a song without the confidence that it deserves to be sung is a job best left to professionals. Second, Grizelda should choose a song that's convincing coming from her. A song in the first person from a female point of view is more convincing from a female singer. A song meant to fire up the troops before battle is not very convincing coming from a quavery, quiet soprano. Third, Grizelda should gauge whether she wants active participation from others for the song, or whether she's better off by herself. Some people who sing a capella really would rather play with a guitar but can't play it themselves; other people find accompaniment a distraction. The same goes for people singing along, either in unison or in harmony. If Grizelda wants help, she should choose a song that is at least somewhat familiar, or if it's completely new, arrange outside of the filk to teach it to some people who'll help her. If she wants to perform strictly solo, it's at least OK and maybe better to choose something that's completely unfamiliar. Either way, she should say briefly in her introduction how much help she'd like.

Choosing the right moment for a song is more important than any of the other stuff I've mentioned here. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I have much good advice on this point, beyond emphasizing that it does matter and Grizelda should choose her moment carefully. She should try to avoid doing her song right after someone else has done a song that is very similar in mood, tempo, theme, etc., that is going to make her song look bad in comparison. Beyond that, she needs to either match a moment where the room is ready for more material on the current theme with a song that matches the theme, or a moment where the room is ready for a change of pace with a song that creatively either twists or shatters the theme. Following the theme may seem safer, but it's no guarantee, and insisting on only following the theme is likely to lead to frustration if Grizelda has one particular song she wants to sing.

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catalana
2004-08-27 04:11 pm UTC (link)

Second, Grizelda should choose a song that's convincing coming from her. A song in the first person from a female point of view is more convincing from a female singer. A song meant to fire up the troops before battle is not very convincing coming from a quavery, quiet soprano.

I agree with the latter point but not the former; I don't actually notice the gender of the person singing as opposed to the gender of the person the song is "about." I've written a lot of songs from the perspective of male character in a book and I don't think anyone's ever had problems dealing with that. (And you can always set the piece up briefly: this is a song about X from the point of view of Y.)

Having the right voice/performance ability for a particular *mood*, however, I definitely agree with. You can certainly expand the kinds of songs you sing, but choosing something you are stronger at is a good idea when you want people to stay.

(If you *are* trying to expand what you sing (and especially your voice is sometimes a little thin or quavery), working on rousing songs with sing-a-long choruses can be good; a lot of times people can pick up the choruses and lend some musical and moral support to the singer, which may give you more confidence. And it's *much* easier to fill out and project if you're not cringing in terror!)

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tigertoy
2004-08-28 12:31 pm UTC (link)

I don't intend to present being the right gender for the song as an overriding concern, but it does help somewhat. As a listener, it certainly never ruins a performance by itself, and if it's the only problem I can point to, then I probably liked the performance just fine; but if I do notice it, I do think it's a negative, and I do notice it sometimes. As a performer, it makes me feel a little less comfortable about some songs that I really like -- and anything that makes you less comfortable with a song is a big red flag.

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tigertoy
2004-08-27 01:00 pm UTC (link)

One other point that I wanted to make in a separate comment is that unless Grizelda is either really good or really terrible, she will surely find a more enthusiastic reception while she's developing her technical skills and her confidence if she seeks out a small circle with other people who are at her own level rather than trying to run with the big dogs in that 50-guitar cutthroat main filk room. Without being intentionally elitist, we have to recognize that the audience in the room full of great musicians is going to be expecting a high level of performance skill. This is multiplied by the fact that half of that audience is themselves musicians who are impatiently waiting for their own turn because there are too many people in the room, and they're apt to resent (hopefully not consciously, but it will still be there) having to wait even longer for Grizelda's turn. Finally, Grizelda is probably going to be too intimidated by that crowd to perform at her best.

A great place to find a small and welcoming circle is at a housefilk. If Grizelda lives in a large metropolitan area, there's a fair chance that there are some other filkers in the area, so if there isn't a regular local housefilk, she ought to start one!

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beige_alert
2004-08-27 08:18 pm UTC (link)

I'd like to very much agree with this advice. Additionally, the money and time restrictions that keep most of us from attending more than a few conventions per year apply less to local or reasonably local housefilks, so you can attend more and get more practice in front of audiences.

I had a very nice experience in my early days at a friend's birthday party where some filking took place. I ended up taking turns with one other person before a small audience and by about song three or four the stage fright largely dissipated. It was a delightful taste of things to come when the stage fright would become more manageable.

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beige_alert
2004-08-27 02:46 pm UTC (link)

I think I tend to get the best reactions in response to songs that much or all of the audience hasn't heard before, or hasn't heard often or recently. At least if you sing something that hasn't been recorded you won't be, in some sense, competing for attention with a studio recording by very good performers. This advice might work best with silly songs. As a listener I find that funny songs are usually funny the first time while serious songs, unless I'm very familiar with the subject matter, I usually don't 'get' until I've heard them a few times and really understand the story. (I'd be interested in hearing if others feel the same way.) At least in my experience, the songs that seem to engage the audience best even with very weak performance skills are silly songs new to the audience (thank you, Kanefsky, for that wonderful web site).

It also helps to know more than just one or two songs, so that you are more likely to know something that fits the mood.

To bring up another issue, practice at home alone is vital, but to some extent getting used to having an audience requires an audience, painful as that may be at first to performer and audience alike. In my case, at least, stage fright has greatly diminished with experience, at the cost of a trail listeners who probably wondered if I suffered from a neuromuscular disorder and deafness besides.

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