Home

Previous Entry | Next Entry

Mile Zer0


I find it hilarious that when one is an atheist and, in writing and conversation, treats the Christian story the same way that they treat any myth, they are subject to assaults to the effect of “Stop mocking people’s beliefs! Just because someone doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean you have the right to make fun of their faith!”

This is curious, because it’s such an us/them assertion: It fails to recognize that belief is a personal thing that some people believe that the story of Christ (or any other religious figure) is just that – a story. In the same way that so many love to parody The Matrix or Lord of the Rings, Christianity is fair game for satire. If my beliefs are that there is no God, no higher power, no old man in the sky or omnipresent power connecting all living things, than I should be permitted to express those beliefs to my heart’s content. Don’t yell at me for making fun of your beliefs when, in doing so, I am expressing my own.

If you believe differently than I do, I respect that – but it doesn’t mean that I have to automatically assume that your beliefs aren’t a steaming pile of feces. I respect everyone automatically, but their beliefs are subject to question. When someone comes up to you and tells you that tiny frogs live in their ears and tell them how to live their life, the response is generally “Bwhahahahaha! You’re fucking NUTS!” and I have no problem with this. When someone says something that you consider to be absolutely unfounded and crazy, you should say so.

Therefore, when someone says to me “This carpenter got nailed to a tree 2,000 years ago and therefore, we’re all free of ‘sin,’ but have to follow inexplicable rules in order to remain so,” I just have to laugh, because – in my mind – that’s ludicrous. I’ve read the Bible dozens upon dozens of times. Biblical study was one of my focuses in college. It’s a fantastic and beautiful set of stories, and the character of Jesus of Nazareth (whether he actually existed or not) had innumerable words of wisdom, from the likes of which many people would surely gain valuable insight; but when YOU choose to believe that these stories are unquestionably true and to try to emulate their message in every aspect of your life, you start to resemble those Trekkies who wear Starfleet uniforms to jury duty and take classes like Speaking Klingon 101.

If you choose to believe, without any outside evidence, that the Bible is historical truth, that there is only one means by which one can be saved, that there is only one source for a connection to something beyond yourself, that is your prerogative. You’ll just have to excuse the rest of us who don’t feel that we need a book to tell us how to be good people. You’ll excuse us if we can’t help but notice that while your religious views may help and comfort YOU, they happen to be beliefs that are not based on the reality in which we live. If you choose to believe such things, as is certainly your right, you should be prepared to be perceived as naïve, superstitious, and reliant on crutches that make dealing with the horrors of the world less painful, but also less human.

It would be nice to believe that there’s someone who loves us watching over us, but we’ve seen no evidence of that, aside from the assertions of myths, worldwide – all of which cropped up as man was suddenly able to use his imagination. The story of Jesus Christ is inspiring to me, not because I am gullible enough to believe that an invisible and elusive deity sacrificed His only Son in order to save humanity from this “sin” business, but because the story came from a human being, who thought “Wouldn’t it be nice if we were willing to give our own lives, such that the lives of those we leave behind would be made better?” and that human being was kind enough to pass that idea on to future generations. That’s it. It’s a great story. It has a lot to teach us. We should all read it. We should not, however, feel obligated to believe it, or patronize the beliefs of those who strangely want to label it as literal history. Cope.

M-A

Comments

[info]bronxelf_ag001 wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 02:37 pm (UTC)
Well... There goes another night of my picking up your bar tab.


*smooch*
[info]city_of_dis wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 02:41 pm (UTC)
I'm going to make a t-shirt to wear that says "Will Write For Drinks".

M-A
(no subject) - [info]bronxelf_ag001 - Mar. 19th, 2004 03:11 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]ludimagist wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 02:37 pm (UTC)
I have one question...
Do you serve that lamb with water or with wine?
Re: I have one question... - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 02:41 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I have one question... - [info]dreamattack - Mar. 20th, 2004 02:55 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]myluckyclover wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 02:38 pm (UTC)
yummyyy


I love lamb...
Re: yummyyy - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 02:42 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]xander_cane wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 02:39 pm (UTC)
Amen sister! ;-) By the way, I am starting up a new religon and I was wondering if you were interested in taking part in it... it is the "The Church of Tiny-Ear-Frogs". Interested? As a first member, you are allowed to alter our sacred documents to fit your personal opinions! Don't like gay people? We will say the frogs tell us to burn them all! Think women are lesser beings put here for out pleasure? Say that the frogs best friend, the tiny nose-pig, says that women are worthless!
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 02:42 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]davien wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 03:10 pm (UTC)
Hrm. I'm not sure I agree that it's OK to refer to someone's beliefs as a mythology and expect them not to react negatively.

Just as a Christian might reject the Hindu faith, or a Confucian might reject the Christian faith, all of these can do so without referring to the others as a mythology. And I do understand that the only thing, truly, that differentiates mythos from religious beliefs is having followers who believe.

But, on the one hand, you can conceed that a person has a belief system (whether you believe in it or not, it is there) without offering offense. On the other hand, you discount it entirely and treat it as a fallacy. Is this really different than the behavior that the fundamentalists you don't like exhibit towards you?

While you may easily be within your rights to believe that any other person's faith is based on a fallacy, or even that it's a complete and utter steaming pile, I think there's a certain amount of duplicity in declaiming the beliefs of others for declaiming the beliefs of others.

Does that make any sense at all?

I don't expect you to believe anything other than what you want to believe, but why is it so important to you to paint the beliefs of others in a negative light? If frog-nose boy comes up to me, I may assume he is insane, I might not believe as he believes, but I am generally happy to let him continue to believe as he believes and will debate his beliefs with him if he opens that door.

I don't think anyone ever gets anywhere with a dismissive "you're full of shit" no matter what side of the fence it comes from. No one deserves to have someone else's belief (or lack of belief) rubbed in their faces.
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 03:27 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]davien - Mar. 19th, 2004 10:35 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 11:03 pm (UTC) Expand
Mythology - [info]deoridhe - Mar. 19th, 2004 04:28 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Mythology - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 04:30 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]supremegoddess1 wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 03:11 pm (UTC)
we're in similar ellipses right now. i have a page of "idea blurbs" sitting beside me for a post on religion i've been wanting to write all day (and which i will get to, just as soon as i finish sorting through my friends' page). and i swear to god (no pun intended), that one line that was (and is) going to be in it is "my god can beat up your god."
(no subject) - [info]archanglrobriel - Mar. 19th, 2004 03:21 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]supremegoddess1 - Mar. 19th, 2004 03:23 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]ankewehner - Mar. 23rd, 2004 07:58 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]supremegoddess1 - Mar. 23rd, 2004 02:30 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 03:29 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]supremegoddess1 - Mar. 19th, 2004 03:31 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]evanescenced wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 03:17 pm (UTC)
Especially when *everyone* knows the only *real* religion is Paranoid Agnosticism...

"I'm a paranoid agnostic. I doubt the existence of God, but I'm sure
there is some force, somewhere, working against me." -Marc Maron
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 03:31 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]archanglrobriel wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 03:18 pm (UTC)
As Joseph Campbell liked to point out, Mythology to Christians = Everyone else's religion.
I love pointing out to them episodically that their myths are no better than my myths, and in a lot of ways are -less- compelling.
Your god never had sex? Never? Ever? Daaaaamn, no way am I signing up with you people...
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 03:32 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]arkadeis - Mar. 19th, 2004 09:24 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]naniwa_elle wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 03:28 pm (UTC)
Would this be an appropirate time for an 'amen' or a 'hallejulea'?
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 03:34 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]le_natz - Mar. 19th, 2004 04:04 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]rillifane wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 04:43 pm (UTC)
Very well said.



(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 04:44 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]nightclawblue wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 04:55 pm (UTC)
I've think the idea of the christian loving/vengeful/forgiving/damning god is rather odd. He claims to love everyone, yet he would willingly allow all who disbelieve christianity to burn in hell? even though they are every bit as devoted to their religion? And an interesting flash video brought another thought to mind - when the biblical floor occurred it was because the people were all evil. Ok, either god had a shorter temper then, or they must have been hell'uva evil... except for one. Yes, even the children and the babies and the dogs and the cats were all so evil they had to drown.
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 05:00 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]supremegoddess1 wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 05:08 pm (UTC)
I finished my post (finally!). I think you'll dig.
[info]trillain wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 05:29 pm (UTC)
Well-written as always. :) Friend of mine pointed me over to one of your previous entries and I decided to start reading regularly since everything I've read is well-put, amusing, and thought-provoking. :D Keep up the good work.
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 05:56 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]ladyegreen wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 06:41 pm (UTC)
Raising Cane?
Fair enough, this post pre-empts me posting in my own journal some rambling I have on the fanatics of atheism. You'll have to look for that when I get a chance to sit down and be coherent. I will say this however, there is not but a few on either side of the Christian/atheist debate that does not wax poetic about themselves or think they are superior.

L.


Re: Raising Cane? - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 06:45 pm (UTC) Expand
afraidofnames wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 07:25 pm (UTC)
Words
Your use of the word "belief" is a little confusing. Let me ask you: what terminology is used to describe the myths upon which one bases his own religion? For instance: I am sometimes a Discordian, so obviously I dig the Erisian myth, but by your usage I do not "believe" the Erisian myth because I know that Eris, the Greek pantheon, etc. never really existed. To say that I "have faith in" the Erisian myth sounds even more ludicrous - as though I think the Erisian myth is going to happen some day. What term would you suggest?
Common usage seems to suggest that when someone says that they "believe" in something, that thing plays a major part in the composition of their of their opinion in regard to the context of the statement. A person might say "I believe what my English teacher has to say about The Catcher in the Rye," and he would mean that his teachers statements echo his own opinion on the book; And when he says "I believe in the Bible," he would probably mean that the Bible echoes his thoughts on religion - though not necissarily his thoughts on history or gardening. He could foreseeably mean that the Bible structures his opinion on anything, but since the Bible is primarily known as a religious work, it can be reasonably assumed that he intends the statement in that context. I point this out because I have a few Christian friends who will gladly tell you that they "belive in the Bible," but would also laugh at the notion of it being a history book. [Being Discordian, I laugh at the idea of the Principia Discordia being a history book *and* I laugh at the idea of it being a religious text.]

-I can already see some problems with my "definition" of belief, as the statement "I believe in love," should parse, however awkwardly, into "In my opinion, love is an abstract concept that exists in the world." But I hope you can see the gist of my confusion.
Re: Words - [info]ladyegreen - Mar. 19th, 2004 07:42 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Words - afraidofnames - Mar. 19th, 2004 07:47 pm (UTC) Expand
OT: Names - [info]deoridhe - Mar. 20th, 2004 11:15 am (UTC) Expand
Re: OT: Names - afraidofnames - Mar. 22nd, 2004 01:44 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Words - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 07:47 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Words - afraidofnames - Mar. 19th, 2004 08:24 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Words - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 08:37 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Words [Precision of Language remix] - afraidofnames - Mar. 19th, 2004 09:06 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Words [Precision of Language remix] - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 09:26 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]auguris wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 07:26 pm (UTC)
I can't think of anything particularly clever to say, so I'll just give a resounding YES and move on.

..

YES.
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 07:35 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]mdprier wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 09:23 pm (UTC)
*loud applause* What he said...
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 09:39 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]arkadeis wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 09:27 pm (UTC)
“This carpenter got nailed to a tree 2,000 years ago and therefore, we’re all free of ‘sin,’ but have to follow inexplicable rules in order to remain so,”

Best one line synopsis of Christianity ever. Must remember that one for future use.

Oh, and you are brilliant as ever. Some day I will think of something else to say when speaking to you, but now is sadly not that day.

Personally its tiny penguins that tell me what to do in my sleep, but the frogs was disturbingly close.
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 09:41 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]yeojimonator wrote:
Mar. 19th, 2004 10:22 pm (UTC)
Hmm, I was reading this entry and thought of this -- just thought I'd show you! :)
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 19th, 2004 10:42 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]dreamattack wrote:
Mar. 20th, 2004 03:03 pm (UTC)
thank you for once again forming my thoughts with words much better than I ever could. I often refer to Christianity as the world's most wide-spread mythology (altho I think there are more Muslims than Christians, I'm not entirely certain). imho, all religions originate and perpetuate because they are the most effective cultural means of controlling the moral behavior of "the group".

there are a lot of good lessons in the bible, but to expect that EVERYONE believes the bible as TRUTH and FACT - that's just unreasonable. (& it drive me nuts!)

it's like mass hysteria or the fear of falling. it's superstition. it's "but WHAT IF it's true - then I'll burn for an eternity!" the day I let go of the guide rope and began to walk on my own, see with my own eyes - I've eaten from the tree of good and evil, my eyes are opened, and I can never look back. I know better.

ramble ramble ramble. ;) or as my brother puts it, "get off my dick and let me live my own life."
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 20th, 2004 03:11 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]dreamattack - Mar. 20th, 2004 08:20 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 20th, 2004 09:00 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]trueandspurious wrote:
Mar. 20th, 2004 07:22 pm (UTC)
Thanks for that, it was a really good read. A sad irony is, that if, or when, one of those people you're talking about were to read this, it will most likely be totally over their head.
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 20th, 2004 08:58 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]ghazz wrote:
Mar. 21st, 2004 08:45 am (UTC)
science
Just out of curiousity, would you consider Science as a leap of faith? Reason my asking, Science is based on rules, calculations, etc. Who created this system of calculations, proofs, and such, and how can we verify that science is actually a true calculation of reality?

I feel a tiny bit of faith in science is required to believe the information presented throughout the years has validity.

I think it would be interesting if aliens descended, laughing in hysterics, because our faith in science is inordinarily rediculous. Of course, they change a law here, change a law there, and God/or any other deity appears! heh

The unknown; somethings our worst enemy, other times our best enema!

-badge




Re: science - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 21st, 2004 09:13 am (UTC) Expand
[info]silmaril wrote:
Mar. 22nd, 2004 11:00 am (UTC)
Took a seminar on how to write with Tengwar this morning.

Am attempting to learn Sindarin.

Am happy with my belief system ;-).
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 22nd, 2004 11:28 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]silmaril - Mar. 22nd, 2004 11:40 am (UTC) Expand
[info]queen_oblivia wrote:
Mar. 26th, 2004 01:16 pm (UTC)
this reminds mo of a guy i used to know who was an honest-to-Thor Odinist. (he was a crap guy who was, funnily enough, an odious Odinist)

his family seriously believed in Thor and Loki and Odin and Asgard and Valhalla and whatnot. the religion is so out of fashion now that we can't help but think of it as mythology, but here is a whole family of people seriously believing it.
(no subject) - [info]city_of_dis - Mar. 26th, 2004 01:18 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]queen_oblivia - Mar. 26th, 2004 04:02 pm (UTC) Expand

Profile

Mile Zer0
[info]city_of_dis
Marc-Anthony Macon
Penwan

Latest Month

July 2008
S M T W T F S
  12345
6789101112
13141516171819
20