bearlawnyc: I really don't think gay marriage works

Joseph A. Hayden (

bearlawnyc) wrote,
@ 2004-09-24 09:50:00

Current mood:

apathetic

I really don't think gay marriage works
Lesbians, sure; some straight people, even in large numbers I would say they work; gay men? Very few do I think would characterize their relationships as "successes" so long as "success" does not hinge on one of them dying to terminate the relationship. So many of the men I know who are in financially or emotionally intertwined relationships with other men are miserable and love to bitch about it because they settled for someone who is not even close to what they wanted and most gay men are so fickle they want perfection and won't be satisfied unless they are in 24 hour bliss. Do I sound cynical and bitter? Well how many of those men might be potential mates for me and a better fit if they hadn't entered into the quagmire that they call their lover/roommate? And that's just my opinion of the OPENLY gay men. I have even more disdain for the gay men who are in marriages with women for convenience or without her knowledge when they are missing out on the best part of being gay (the profound love, which is the icing on the great sex).

I know several gay couples who have 20 year plus relationships and some of them still have sex with each other regularly. Although sex is not everything, it IS important. To my joy these are the ones that also tend to be secure enough to have sex with others as well, which is what I attribute in large part to their relationships' longevity.

What about those of us who want a partner that will last and are not willing to embark on altering our lives (despite all the economic and sexual advantages of steady cock and a second income) to attempt another 1.5 years (that's what an Amsterdam study of "long-term" gay male couples shows is the average) living with a man (although a lot of men define a boyfriend they don't even live with as a "lover" -- a New York City thang? -- to my chagrin)?

I have blogged about dating on my web site's private blog section (haydennet.com/blog) in the past, but that was more of my personal analysis of the statistical possiblity of my finding someone who sees eye to eye with me of what I want. In the meantime, I don't see myself foregoing the possibility of meeting men from afar for weekend affairs who "seem perfect", like the guy who is visiting me from Florida over Thanksgiving weekend, just because I MIGHT be dating someone who is local or not moving away. There seems to be a strange phenomenon as no less than FOUR of the guys who I would have considered potential boyfriends and who I actually think I "dated" this year all have plans to move to other countries or other parts of the USA. I know the "grass is always greener on the other side," since I myself moved fro my home state of California over 16 years ago, but I'm starting to get a complex!

What made me post this blog with this title? I read this personal ad last night which really depressed me. It was by a guy who grew up in a rural part of the country but who is obviously brilliant. He speaks at least six languages and he and I exchanged reciprocal nods of approval on a bear site (without actually engaging in conversation yet). In his profile he laments about the "odds" of being convinced to cohabitate with another man in his future, wherever he may end up living. In his experience, I suppose, he was disappointed with the outcome of the cohabitational relationships he had with other men.

Even though I consider myself a pretty smart guy, if THIS guy can't do it and has given up all hope, maybe I should face reality and come to the same conclusion, which on many instances I have when I've said "I'm prepared to be single the rest of my life." Damn this instinct to socialize and couple! I had been inspired a few years ago when Barbra Streisand (haydennet.com/barbra), approaching age 60, married the love of her life, four years her senior. I do believe they have a wonderful marriage against a lot of odds, but a wealthy, successful, attractive woman with a brilliant mind is still not comparable to a frisky, gay, non-smoking, bearish, custodial father of a rebellious pre-teen who lives in an urban environment. I know it's not a pure numbers game, but I'm expecting to find a lasting romance ever-elusive.

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genxcub
2004-09-24 07:49 am UTC (link)

I think if you're characterizing certain types of couples as being more stable, men are men, whether they're straight or gay or in between. I think if hetero men were with equally ~~slutty~~ sexually liberated women, their relationships wouldn't be that long-lasting either.

As far as this other guy from the ad, there are people who just cannot find their exact match. I'm thinking because his exact match doesn't exist. I know quite a few people who have certain criteria for who they're looking for, knowing that it's impossible to meet all of them, and yet are not willing to compromise their thinking to get it.

I had thought that I would never fit into a monogamous relationship. I wanted to be a big ole ho, but now I find that I'm fine with settling down. The man I'm with is nothing like what I'd imagined that my ideal would be, but we click very well. I had thought that the monogamous thing would be a deal-breaker, and it turned out to not be that way. I can only speak for myself, so this isn't to tell you how to do things, I just wanted to share my experience.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Thanks for your testimony! :)

bearlawnyc
2004-09-24 09:56 am UTC (link)

I know people who flipflop on the monog thing for the benefit of entering relationships all the time, but I don't say "flipflop" with the negative connotation that Bush does when speaking of Kerry, who actually can admit when something does not go as planned, like the fallacious war in Iraq.

You are, of course, entitled to do what you think makes you happy at the time, especially if you're not complaining about your situation, and of course you and your partner can discuss altering the dynamics of the relationship hopefully before one of you makes a unilateral decision to become non-monog. I understand that some men are in a monog relationships now, but how long do these things last, if longevity is important? Some men I know just want serial monog so that they can have extreme bareback sex every time they have sex with a guy because safer sex acts are repugnant to them. In these serial monog relationships they can pretend like there is no risk because they are trusting their health to their purportedly non-cheating partners. While everyone likes to have sex naturally, I just don't think it is prudent or so desirable as to do something I would wager is high risk in the sack.

Statistics (and my informal polling) prove that relationships that are forced to be strictly monog do not last that long, so that is something I am just going to have to stick to avoiding (as you put it, for me it would be a deal-breaker). Does one always know for certain if a relationship will always be the same nature? No matter how righteous some of these guys are in wanting to conform to heterosexist ideals of monog, many a friend has come to me knowing my soap box on this issue and after being partnered years and tell me how they thought they would always only want their husband's cocks until they died, but they admit they could not predict the future.

I also wanted to respond by saying that being in an open relationship does not mean you have to have constant indiscriminate sex with strangers. Non-monog to me can also mean an occasional three-some, but it is NOT monog. It is also not cheating.

As for the man you are with being your "ideal", I think there will always be the possiblity of tricking with "ideals" now and then, but the physical ideals don't always make the best emotional matches. I do not expect someone I am compatible with to be the "perfect furball" for example, by any stretch. If he is, great, but some of the perfect furballs I've tried to couple with were the biggest emotional disasters.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Thanks for your testimony! :) genxcub 2004-09-24 11:08 am UTC (link)
	While it is a monogamous relationship, it's really a sort of unstated thing. I think if either of us found someone we were dying to do, we'd talk about it. We don't have stated barriers, but that's just me... mr. ambiguous. I think I'm lucky to be in Las Vegas where 99.9% of people here are fairly hideous in one way or another. Friendly? yes. Handsome? Rarely ;o) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	Men are men, but.... bearlawnyc 2004-09-24 11:05 am UTC (link)
	Gay men have to couple with gay men, and that is definitely a different animal. I was with a woman 11 years and it was not tantamount to the dynamics of a male-male relationship, even if we had tried to heterosexualize it by experimenting with strict monog. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	kevinduran 2004-09-24 08:07 am UTC (link)
	To me it seems like marriage, in general, rarely works. I agree with everything you said. Trying to find someone to date regularly is extremely hard. The thought of having a longterm relationship seems like it's almost impossible at times. It's very frustrating. I know I'd make somebody a great boyfriend!! We just have to remain positive that it'll happen in time. (Reply to this)(Thread)

I'm glad I'm not crazy then....

bearlawnyc
2004-09-24 09:40 am UTC (link)

So nearly impossible seems to be the conclusion, but of course not impossible. I am happy I've had some love in my life -- profound mutual love from two men and what I had thought was a profound love with a woman, which ended up being more sibling-like. I guess we can rest assured that we think we're good husband material even if a match (notice how I don't say the "One") may seemingly never show up. Will that knowledge keep us warm at night, though? Should I go back on my feeling that exploring a relationship with a man far away from this gay mecca may be my "best" match? Maybe when I'm less beautiful and more desperate?! Until then, I will be satisfied with guys calling me unromantic for sticking to my guns.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

Re: I'm glad I'm not crazy then....

kevinduran
2004-09-24 10:00 am UTC (link)

I don't think that being realistic is being unromantic at all.

As far as exploring for a relationship with a man far away from where you are now, that's one of the great things about the Internet. We have so many more opportunities in this day and age to find someone who is perfectly compatible.

Or... we have more opportunities to find MORE people that are incompatible! I guess it just depends on how we look at it.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

It's part of the journey

koalabr
2004-09-24 08:39 pm UTC (link)

I find all men are the same, gay or straight, and any relationship is hard work, it depends on whether you are willing to invest in making it work.

In general, I look for good friends, ones I can share part of my life and existence with. And its sharing many different things. The less a friendship has to do with sex, the better it is for me! There is no perfect man, but I can feel rest assured that I can share myself with people who I love. Finding the one man who can do that is not an easy task. Finding the sole sex partner for life is a fallacy. For some men, sleeping with multiple partners is a natural part of being healthy and happy. Sex doesn't equal love, nor the other way round, but a nice balance is all you can hope for. Sometimes the most intelligent men struggle with relationships, because they are so much in touch with who they are. And it becomes hard to let go, and pursue the spirit, when the mind wants control.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings, you are a pretty switched on man and that's a gift that you share with the world.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	Re: It's part of the journey bearlawnyc 2004-09-24 10:15 pm UTC (link)
	You made my night Dr. Luciano. I'm so glad we've stayed in touch over the years. We will meet in person someday for all the efforts we've made in doing so. (Reply to this)(Parent)

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