Arbat ([info]arbat) wrote,
@ 2004-09-05 02:12:00
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Current mood: calm

Kerry voted with Cheney? Oh, really?
Guys, some of you are trying to say that Cheney and Bush elder also voted to cut down some military programs and to abandon some weapons. So, the logic goes, Kerry did exactly what they did.

I want to help you. Look, people who mindlessly repeat Democratic Party talking points usually find themselves in many very embarrassing positions. Well, at least those who know what an embarrassment is.

Before you go on - pause a little. And try to think. Just a little. Here is something to ponder: Bush elder, Cheney and Co - they were those people who were in their time called by Democrats war-crazy Reagan's hawks. They were vilified as war-mongers who fueled the arms race with their insatiable appetite for huge military programs. They were blamed for overspending on unneeded weapons and serving the interests of the industrial-military complex. Don't you think it sounds a little bit stupid - when someone claims that they did exactly the same things as John Kerry - who in the very same times were the biggest anti-war activist?

Now that you (presumably) applied your common sense and thought about it a little, you may become interested - what was different between them? Why Kerry was considered to be the most docile dove, while his opponents were viewed as the ultimate hawks? Now, you can start noticing that mostly the instances where Kerry and Cheney voted together to drop one or another weapon system - relate to the time when this system already existed. And, was considered by Cheney to be obsolete, or inadequate or unnecessary. Now, what about the moment when this system was CREATED? How did Kerry vote on that issue? And, talking about abandoning some old systems - how did Kerry vote on the next issue: REPLACEMENT of this old system with something new? Is there information on this votes of his on Democratic websites?

Think, people.
It's hard at first, but once you start - you gonna love it.



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[info]syarzhuk
2004-09-05 02:44 am UTC (link)
Now, what about the moment when this system was CREATED? How did Kerry vote on that issue?
So, how did he? Republicans only show his votes starting in 1990 Washington Post and Fact Check only show his votes starting in 1989.
Funny enough, Kerry - the most liberal senator in Congress, an evil man who wants to take away those preciousss B-2s from the poor US Army and give them spitballs instead - happened to vote in 1991 for the termination of the new production of B-2 bomber aircraft together with Republicans Cohen, Grassley, Hatfield, Jeffords, McCain, and Packwood.
The only pre-1989 fact these links show is the 1984 memo where Kerry stands for "cancellation of the MX missile, B-1 bomber, anti-satellite weapons, and the “Star Wars” anti-missile program" and for reductions in Tomahawks, M-1 Abrams tank, the Bradley Fighting Vehicle and the F-16 jet.
So, Mr. [info]arbat - how did Kerry vote on army systems when they were created?

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[info]arbat
2004-09-05 05:23 am UTC (link)
Look, didn't I just tell you to pause and think before typing?
Don't make an ass of yourself - apply your common sense.

There got to be a reason why people think that Cheney is a hawk's hawk, while Kerry is the most dovish Senator alive? Why don't you try to find out the reason they think so?


Oh, and, yes - there are doves among Republicans too. But they are not running for Presidency nowadays, are they?

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[info]syarzhuk
2004-09-05 09:03 am UTC (link)
Being a dove is one thing; voting against every military program and "arming the army with spitballs" is another.
I am not saying that Kerry isn't a dove or that Cheney isn't a hawk (though you did say Bush I wasn't a hawk elsewhere). However, you saying that Kerry voted against military programs when they were created (more specifically, during Reagan years) is akin to the swift vet doctor "testifying" that he knows Kerry didn't earn his purple heart honestly - neither you, nor that doctor have any facts to back that up.

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[info]arbat
2004-09-05 02:34 pm UTC (link)
"Being a dove is one thing; voting against every military program and "arming the army with spitballs" is another."

Oh, really?
That's something totally new.

Look, why do want me to find information for you? Go to a library, find some newspapers that describe Kerry's promises when he was running for Senate in 1984 on a "war and peace" slogan and take a look at the list of weapons he promised to eliminate. Or check out the info about his work with "Jobs With Peace" campaign in the end of the 80-s. Find out what his stand was on nuclear freeze, Pershing missile placement in Europe, and other issues. Why do you insist I should do your homework?

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[info]syarzhuk
2004-09-06 05:25 am UTC (link)
>Look, why do want me to find information for you?
Because you are the one making the accusation.
А иначе получается, как знаменитый ответ лектора общества "Знание" на вопрос, как будут работать правоохранительные органы при коммунизме: милиции не будет, а люди будут настолько сознательные, что, совершив преступление, прочитают Уголовный кодекс, сами пойдут в тюрьму и сами себя задержат на положенное время.

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[info]arbat
2004-09-06 06:17 am UTC (link)
I gave you enough information to find whatever you need with google.

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