Sarah ([info]sarasita) wrote in [info]ucberkeley,
@ 2005-12-11 15:02:00
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Current mood: angry

racism and rochdale
what would you say if someone told you that you were committing the very thing that you and your whole culture strives against?

affirmative action. i am a great opponent to it... i do not believe it, i think instead that it is like a band-aid for a gaping wound and ineffective in the long run. but i am about to invoke it to force the people around me to think about their actions.

i live in rochdale. it's an apartment complex in the USCA (the co-ops) if you are unfamiliar. here, as in my science classes, i am a minority. instead of being surrounded by those who are asian, i am instead surrounded by latinos. these people are generally nice, individually. i have known several of them as friends or at least acquaintances.

but the air of racism is thick here.

many of these latinos are very involved in latino rights, which i commend to a point. but there is a time and place. for example, people at central office complain that at board meetings the rochdale representatives only talk about latino rights, nothing else (because they are all latino). as a matter of fact, EVERYONE in any elected position is latino, and in the majority of the hired positions as well. why? because they all push for their latino friends to get the position. my partner was vying for a hired position and got shoved out of it because the manager is latino and thus wanted a latino working with him.

i took a look at the results for the council positions for spring 2006, i saw MAYBE two names that MIGHT not be latino. there are 30+ positions, almost all of which had several races applying for them. and all of the latinos got at least 20 votes over non-latinos.

they form their cliques in a way that i haven't experienced since high school. they don't even feign our existence unless they have to and they jump down your throats if you say the least thing that may be offensive (from personal experience). they do not like people who are not latino.

this disturbs me. do they not see what they are doing? this can be expanded to the whole campus. everyone on campus is split up according to their race. just sit on sproul, you will see what i am talking about. i was never racist before coming to berkeley... in fact the opposite. i had no sense of prejudice or discrimination. but i do now... the cliques have made me. in trying to integrate themselves and bring equality, they have created deeper furrows.

this is what i'm seeing. and i am not the only one.



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[info]berkeleybeetle
2005-12-11 11:28 pm UTC (link)
Well, I guess one could tell you the same thing we've told Latinos for decades: Deal with it.

(Reply to this)


[info]quirkyfemme
2005-12-11 11:35 pm UTC (link)
I think you should bring this issue up with adcom or the conflict resolution coordinator it is a pervasive issue. However, I'd refrain from classifying people as a group or using the word 'they', and the reason I say this is i replaced every 'latino' with the word 'Jews' and seeing it applied to me made me very upset. If there is a particular person who is making dangerous remarks and displaying favoritism, it is easier to target them rather than accuse a group.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]sarasita
2005-12-12 09:04 am UTC (link)
i do not think it is solvable. and how can you target people if what i see is done en masse? for example: voting for someone because their name sounds hispanic...

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]quirkyfemme, 2005-12-12 09:06 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sarasita, 2005-12-12 09:16 am UTC (Expand)

[info]kritios
2005-12-11 11:44 pm UTC (link)
I don't see how the phenomenon of cliques on-campus (which I do find annoying, because it seems as though people aren't willing to find anything but race as a common ground) should cause you to be prejudiced against them.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]sarasita
2005-12-12 08:16 am UTC (link)
it was by far an oversimplification. the actual explaination involves much more eloquence and patience than i have... never mind that it is completely personal and not fact based (which annoys me being a scientist)

in other words, it's an overly simple explaination and i'd rather not go into the details anyways. but it's just a general atmosphere of dislike and disapproval as well as many other individual incidences i've experienced over the last 4 years

(Reply to this)(Parent)

Rochdale council is stupid
[info]pinkybunny
2005-12-11 11:50 pm UTC (link)
Hmm...well, you sound pretty pissed off.

I'm not Latino (technically I'm Caucasian/Pakistani, although I'm generally regarded as "white") and I served on the Rochdale Council when I lived there two years ago. I hated it. Isaac (the president) drove me crazy with his consistant grandstanding, and I really resented that meetings would run on forever because certain authority figures liked the sound of their voice a tad bit too much. At the end of the semester I resigned my place on council, and I didn't participate in any Rochdale functions for the remaining three semesters I was there (well, not unless workshift hours forced me too).

I don't know how Rochdale is these days--it has been a year since I lived there-- but I think you need to put things in perspective. This is a lousy, stupid, ridiculous apartment council. This is hardly a position based on any power or merit. The real power at Rochdale is the complex managers--and all manager positions are hired directly by the USCA, not the lousy Rochdale council. SO really who cares? Who gives a shit if a bunch of clique-y annoying people are getting their daily ego boost by calling themselves "president" of a poster-child organization. In my eyes being the president of Rochdale council is the equivalant of being the CEO of the local babysitters club.

I say just ignore them, they aren't worth your fury (or racist analysis).

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: Rochdale council is stupid
[info]sarasita
2005-12-12 09:07 am UTC (link)
they are people i have to deal with because i was on council and i was a coordinator.

also, this is not limited. like i said, one of our hired managers does it. he forced a friend of mine out of his temporary (and highly necessary) position so that his latino friend could get more hours cause he needed the money (never mind my friend is poor and has to completely support himself)... he did this after we saw him talk to all his other latino friends about the position first

we went to management and CO about it, they could do nothing.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: Rochdale council is stupid - [info]pinkybunny, 2005-12-12 10:09 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Rochdale council is stupid - [info]sarasita, 2005-12-12 04:43 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]belle_logique
2005-12-11 11:56 pm UTC (link)
Well, I'm sure some of "these latinos" feel just like you when they step onto campus where they are dramatically underrepresented. But is your living situation a racist one? I don't really see how you reach this conclusion.

You say "they jump down your throats if you say the least thing that may be offensive (from personal experience)" But could it be that some people just don't like you, independent of the fact of you not being a latino/a?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]paulney
2005-12-12 12:16 am UTC (link)
> where they are dramatically underrepresented

Are you implying this is because of nepotism of Berkeley admissions who help their caucasian/asian friends become students at UCB?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]belle_logique, 2005-12-12 12:27 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]patr84, 2005-12-12 12:29 am UTC (Expand)

[info]neuroticlardass
2005-12-12 03:29 am UTC (link)
There's a difference between being somewhere where you are dramatically underrepresented (ethnically) and attempting to create your own microcosm where you can perpetuate that same underrepresentation, but for your own group. If someone feels how underrepresnted they are, then that's for them to deal with as long as the majority group isn't actively or subtlely being racist. I've been underrepresented my whole life, but I've never tried to blame someone else for it, nor would I attempt to perpetuate anything negative in favor of my own group (I'm Chinese American, I grew up in a 90% white town, went to a primarily black and Hispanic high school where I was the only Asian person). As long as people were friendly to me (which, luckily, they were), then I never felt like there was any injustice going on just because I was outnumbered, though I may've been socially uncomfortable and alienated.

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(no subject) - [info]sarasita, 2005-12-12 08:40 am UTC (Expand)

[info]sarasita
2005-12-12 08:19 am UTC (link)
it could be they just don't like me. that seems highly likely given my normal personality. however i am not the only one, i have spoken to several people about this.

and i understand it's a "taste of my own medicine" as people seem to think... and while i have done extensive reading and the like regarding racism and the representation of races in society, it seems highly hypocritical for them to want equality and not give it in return.

as for racism, it is not technically. racism requires an institutionalization of the issue... this is a small scale. but the word fits well in my opinion.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

oops
[info]deeschmee
2005-12-12 12:12 am UTC (link)
sarasita apologize i could only read to "instead surrounded by latinos. these people are generally nice, individually". i couldn't read the whole thing because of the gross, racist tone. sorry!!

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: oops
[info]paulney
2005-12-12 12:14 am UTC (link)
Hello! My name is Grammar, and my sister here is Punctuation. Have we met?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: oops - [info]deeschmee, 2005-12-12 12:17 am UTC (Expand)
Re: oops
[info]sarasita
2005-12-12 08:21 am UTC (link)
i apologize you find me so racist. i really try not to be... but sometimes it's hard.

if it makes you feel better, i hate all people equally. ask my friends, seriously.

[info]roximartini
[info]acidcrashalpha
[info]davidazus

these three are my best friends, and can attest that i hate all people.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: oops - [info]sarasita, 2005-12-12 08:22 am UTC (Expand)
What? - [info]pinkybunny, 2005-12-12 08:39 am UTC (Expand)
Re: What? - [info]sarasita, 2005-12-12 09:01 am UTC (Expand)

[info]tigerhawkvok
2005-12-12 12:36 am UTC (link)
I completely concur with you. Affirmative action and the like are merely methods of fostering false divisions based on an arbitrary distinction. By selectivly choosing or preferring a "race", one endorses racial cliques and people to analyse based on race. You know what? We're all Homo sapiens sapiens, and thats the only relevant distinction. If one attempts to promote any race-based distinctions, racial fights ensue. If one constantly advertises and discusses how "____'s" are underrepresented, then of course you cause racial clustering. One has to band together, of course! Foolish people. People must try to take things in stride--accept that some people are jackasses no matter what, and that racial jokes or regional jokes are just that (I mean, honestly, does a white get offended at a redneck joke? I honestly hope not).

"Underrepresentation" is an absolutley foolish concept, and all race-based outreach and awards and well, all race-based anything should be abolished. A 100% "colorblind" system. (I suggest you read this for a cost analysis). Representation at a school should not be based on ancestral geographic location or even [to any nontrivial level] on attempting to "correct" for monetary discrepancies [if you have an "underprivledged" background, work harder. It sucks, but life's not fair. Then get a loan and pay it off like the rest of us.]. Instead, a college should be represented by ability. If this has a correlation with "race", so be it, and if not, so be that. I don't really care, and neither should you. The purpose of college is to advance intelligence, mankind, and our country, and not to play racial games.

For refrence's sake, I'm a science major (physics/astrophysics) who is a minority (European mishmash/Indian subcontinent). I neither accepted or applied for any race-based scholarships, and applied as a white to the UC. If I made it, why can't anyone else?

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)


[info]yaksordrpepper
2005-12-12 01:02 am UTC (link)
Actually, I get very offended by the Redneck jokes I hear just because of my slight Southern accent






Just Kidding. I don't mind being labeled a hick. That's just who I am.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]belle_logique
2005-12-12 01:32 am UTC (link)
Of course the ideal picture of society would be one where people are just considered "Homo sapiens", where people would be treated equally. But ignoring the divisions in our society (like differences in educational attainment) is not the solution to dissolving these divisions.

If we abolished race based outreach, as you suggest, the divisions would just become more severe. I don't think "Life is unfair" is a good enough response to the problem. If people are to have no advantages (like outreach or affirm. action) because of their under privilege, why should the privileged be awarded for their advantages (like whatever resources they possess/acquire) that make them more likely to be accepted into a university?

I think the purpose of a public university is to advance the intelligence of its population. If a state is diverse, it seems to follow that the institutions of higher education should be equally as diverse. If they are not, this points to structural problems in the state's k-12 education system, which may be related to race and class. Perhaps if these were fixed, we would not need bandage programs like affirmative action/outreach.

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(no subject) - [info]tigerhawkvok, 2005-12-12 07:47 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sarasita, 2005-12-12 08:32 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]berkeleybeetle, 2005-12-12 09:59 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sarasita, 2005-12-12 04:39 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]davidazus, 2005-12-12 05:57 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]eversincedaft
2005-12-12 02:24 am UTC (link)
I admire your ideology. Racialization is outdated and completely unnecessary, and racial affirmative action does more to set back social progress than it does to remedy it. However, as to your comment about the underprivileged, I think there's a point where you need to acknowledge that the unequal allocation of resources severely affects "ability" at the university level. Poor kids go to poorly funded public schools with inadequate resources. College prep courses are expensive, and even if a poor school can obtain enough funding for the project, their limited resources restrict the number of students who can take them. Most of these schools are in neighborhoods segregated according to economic situation and race, which is a product of housing appraisal systems and institutional violence. Imagine coupling that with the stigma of being a poor minority, which is a huge disincentive for academic progress. You get a better idea of why many people, including me, feel that public institutions are obligated to acknowledge economic impediments in the admissions process.

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(no subject) - [info]cyanslash, 2005-12-12 03:07 am UTC (Expand)

[info]neuroticlardass
2005-12-12 03:36 am UTC (link)
You would probably say otherwise if you were black/Hispanic/Asian. Can people even tell that you are not white? You would probably also say otherwise if you were from a working-class home, but were very intelligent. Books cost money. SAT tutoring costs money. High-quality teachers cost money. It pisses me off when some white person tries to emphathize with the racism I've received as a Chinese American because they're Eastern European instead of the typical mix of English/German/Irish. Life is hard, and money can artifically boost the chances for those who have it, even against someone just as bright, or who didn't have to deal with social isolation/alienation because of their race.

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(no subject) - [info]patr84, 2005-12-12 04:17 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]neuroticlardass, 2005-12-12 05:32 am UTC (Expand)
White racism does exist - [info]pinkybunny, 2005-12-12 06:42 am UTC (Expand)
Re: White racism does exist - [info]neuroticlardass, 2005-12-12 06:57 am UTC (Expand)
Re: White racism does exist - [info]pinkybunny, 2005-12-12 07:34 am UTC (Expand)
Re: White racism does exist - [info]neuroticlardass, 2005-12-12 08:14 am UTC (Expand)
Re: White racism does exist - [info]tigerhawkvok, 2005-12-12 11:01 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sarasita, 2005-12-12 08:47 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sarasita, 2005-12-12 08:45 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]tigerhawkvok, 2005-12-12 07:56 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sarasita, 2005-12-12 08:26 am UTC (Expand)

[info]heymon32
2005-12-12 12:50 am UTC (link)
Would you get mad if Chinatown had mostly Chinese elected officials? If they are honestly voting and forming cliques, then why the hell not? It seems like you're debunking democracy because it isn't working out for you. If you don't like it, try to win people over, try to form a bloc with the non-Latinos, etc. The majority is taking advantage of "mob rule" in that they control the votes by sheer number. Don't like it?

And plus, I really don't see the cliques on campus. Sure an Indian girl might hang out with a few Indian people, but seriously, I don't see it. It's not on a larger scale than that of any other ordinary place. Try attending one of the ghetto high schools in SoCal and then comment about cliques and racism.

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(no subject) - [info]sarasita, 2005-12-12 09:10 am UTC (Expand)

[info]juhi
2005-12-12 01:43 am UTC (link)
i took a look at the results for the council positions for spring 2006, i saw MAYBE two names that MIGHT not be latino. there are 30+ positions, almost all of which had several races applying for them. and all of the latinos got at least 20 votes over non-latinos.....
they form their cliques in a way that i haven't experienced since high school. they don't even feign our existence unless they have to and they jump down your throats if you say the least thing that may be offensive (from personal experience). they do not like people who are not latino.....
in trying to integrate themselves and bring equality, they have created deeper furrows.


O RLY?

Why would you say something offensive?
Last quoted sentence does not make sense.
Seems to me like you're the racist one in here, fwiw.
Thank you for distracting me from my paper =)

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]sarasita, 2005-12-12 09:13 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]davidazus, 2005-12-13 01:03 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sarasita, 2005-12-13 02:56 am UTC (Expand)

[info]ratiopronation
2005-12-12 02:33 am UTC (link)
i may not totally agree with what you say, but i agree even less with the person who said "i couldn't read the whole thing because of the gross, racist tone. sorry!!"

you can make derogatory comments about a particular group of latinos without being racist; to be racist you have to make derogatory comments about latinos as a whole. to be racist you have to imply or state that someone is inferior to you because of their ethnicity. in berkeley we seriously need to chill out about racism. people here have forgotten what it means to be racist, so now you get attacked for saying anything that is in the least contraversial.

by the way, I FIND THAT PUERTO RICAN GUY TO BE VERY LEVELHEADED. (that is NOT racist, and if you think it is, your logic sucks and you are getting fooled by the semantics.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]sir_fitzy, 2005-12-12 02:53 am UTC (Expand)
Question - [info]sacramentoca, 2005-12-12 03:28 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Question - [info]patr84, 2005-12-12 03:34 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Question - [info]sir_fitzy, 2005-12-12 03:44 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Question - [info]cho_cha, 2005-12-12 04:02 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Question - [info]sacramentoca, 2005-12-12 04:03 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Question - [info]anteojitus, 2005-12-12 05:53 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Question - [info]patr84, 2005-12-12 06:15 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Question - [info]idlegypsy, 2005-12-12 04:08 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Question - [info]sacramentoca, 2005-12-12 04:11 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Question - [info]orangefriendly, 2005-12-12 05:29 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Question - [info]sarasita, 2005-12-12 08:37 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]smartypantoufle, 2005-12-12 05:06 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]__feverdream, 2005-12-12 05:32 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]airi_buruber, 2005-12-12 06:05 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]hapan605, 2005-12-12 05:50 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]quirkyfemme, 2005-12-12 07:16 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sarasita, 2005-12-12 08:36 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]neuroticlardass, 2005-12-12 09:03 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sarasita, 2005-12-12 09:18 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Question
[info]zenkalia
2005-12-12 08:33 am UTC (link)
a huge number of members of this community are only members of this community and do not post in their own livejournals. this is nothing uncommon.

(Reply to this)


[info]ragnus
2005-12-12 11:02 am UTC (link)
here's a picture of a bunch of white people. maybe you'll feel better.

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

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(no subject) - [info]sarasita, 2005-12-12 04:45 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]purplehobbit
2005-12-16 06:32 am UTC (link)
I lived in a 90% latino dorm at UCSC, and I came out of it with some damn fun drinking stories and some good pals. Maybe you should drink more.

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