From: synthe	Date: August 5th, 2005 11:00 pm (UTC)		(Permalink)

If only I had a series 2.. :( I have a lifetime-sub on my original HDR-112, purchased over 3 years ago (so I've got my money's worth!), have gone through two HD upgrades, and currently have it maxxed out with the fast ethernet and 274gb of storage, so the only way I'm going to a Series 2 is if they would let me transfer my lifetime sub over. Alas, I think that my time with TiVo might be running short, as when the Xbox 360 comes out I'll be using it as a media extender on a Media Center PC that I have almost all of the parts to build.

	From: rogueonion_8	Date: August 8th, 2005 04:15 pm (UTC)		(Permalink)

I didn't think a sub followed a single box. That doesn't make sense to me.

	From: zonereyrie	Date: August 8th, 2005 04:18 pm (UTC)		(Permalink)

Lifetime has always been tied to the box. It is the lifetime of the unit, not the owner. It follows the TSN. TiVo has had upgrade promotions in the past where, for a limited time, you've been allowed to transfer it to a new box.

When DirecTV took over all their users they converted the lifetime sub into 'lifetime of the account'. So as long as you had DirecTV you could get a new TiVo DVR and keep using it. But they're pricing structure is very different anyway.

	From: rogueonion_8	Date: August 8th, 2005 04:31 pm (UTC)		(Permalink)

Wow. That is super lame. Glad I didn't buy one.

	From: zonereyrie	Date: August 8th, 2005 10:02 pm (UTC)		(Permalink)

I don't think it is lame. I have lifetime on the three TiVo's I currently own, and I had it on one I've since sold.

Even at the current $299 price lifetime is about the same cost as two years of monthly fees. At the end of those two years with lifetime you're paid off, with monthly you keep paying. And if you pay monthly you have no equity in the unit. Two years ago if you bought a TiVo and got lifetime you could sell to today for at least $300, since that's the value of the sub - people do it all the time. And probably more than $300 because the HW has some value, but right now there is a deal for free HW - so it doesn't have much value. If you went monthly you'd only get whatever the HW is worth.

If the unit breaks and you have it repaired or replaced through official channels, then the subscription transfers. So it isn't a problem with the unit dying if you go through channels - or as long as the unit can be fixed, and most failures tend to be drives, which are easily replaced.

I think it is silly to go monthly, it is renting vs buying. Most people keep the unit more than two years, and even if you just throw it away after that, you're ahead of the game with lifetime. Now, the reduced pricing on additional units ($6.95/month vs $12.95/month) makes it a harder call. Break even ~43 months instead of ~23 months - but I still go lifetime because of the equity factor.

	From: rogueonion_8	Date: August 8th, 2005 11:15 pm (UTC)		(Permalink)

I just don't think I'd be interested in keeping a unit for longer than two years given how fast components upgrade and such. And how fast I like to get new toys. :)

I'm glad I know this now. I almost bought a lifetime but was unaware it was a per unit thing.

	From: zonereyrie	Date: August 8th, 2005 11:26 pm (UTC)		(Permalink)

Look at it this way:
Lifetime: unit $99 + lifetime $299 x 2 years = $398.
Monthly: unit $99 + monthly $12.95/month x 2 years = $409.80

Then you decide to upgrade to something new and sell the old one - with lifetime you have $300 + 'x' of value, because the sub goes with the unit. Wiht monthly you have just 'x' for resale value.

Even if you only kept it for a year, you come out ahead on lifetime when you resell the box because of the equity value. And the longer you happen to keep the box, the further ahead you are.

If you just throw the box away or something, yeah, you lose unless you've had it at least two years.

	From: zonereyrie	Date: August 8th, 2005 11:28 pm (UTC)		(Permalink)

Oh, and that's presuming the subscription stays the same, of course. I bought my first lifetime for $199 - I resold the box with lifetime valued at $299 since the price had gone up. And monthly had gone from $9.95 to $12.95.

	From: trinsf	Date: August 6th, 2005 01:11 am (UTC)		(Permalink)

Signed up both of my 40 hour 2's. I love beta testing. Of course, this means I've nonconsensually involved the entire household in the beta, but, oh well! I bought the Tivos and I pay for their monthlies, so they'll just deal. *grin*

	From: luv2belds97	Date: August 10th, 2005 07:50 am (UTC)		(Permalink)

so are they beta testers gonna get anything as a reward? besides first dibs on the final release? :D

How many testers are they looking for?

	From: zonereyrie	Date: August 10th, 2005 07:59 am (UTC)		(Permalink)

In my experience on both sides of beta programs (I've tested things and run them for employers) - it is unusual for most beta testers to get anything. Basically you beta test because you want to, it is its own reward. (I do it because I'm a geek and I think it is fun to get the new toys early, and also to help improve the final product.)

As for how many - I don't know, TiVoPony didn't say. But since this is kind of replacing the early sign up they did for 7.1, I'd say they're probably going to sign up a hell of a lot of people, hundreds at least. This is the final step before release, a wide beta.

	From: luv2belds97	Date: August 10th, 2005 08:03 am (UTC)		(Permalink)

cool....


uhm....... do you ever sleep?

	From: zonereyrie	Date: August 10th, 2005 04:56 pm (UTC)		(Permalink)

Not nearly enough.