I model for EroticBPM, Manic Jane, and That Strange Girl and love all of them. Never had a single problem with Scott, Jack, or Lux. I also know the kids who run Fatal Beauty and know that they treat their models very well.

I've heard of very little controversy or scandal involving fatal beauty or manic jane or eroticbpm or any of the blueblood sites like gothicsluts, I heard of a little controversy with nekkidnerds and burning angel from one or two models, and that's it. Suicide Girls has managed to piss off or hurt like 50 models, and probably a few THOUSAND members (I'm guessing, how many have been kicked off?) at this point. That's really quite bad, esp. when you compare it to virtually spotless records of every other site in the entire genre (save my old site, Deviant Nation, which I in no way support, though I have not yet seen what will happen with it, since it is not yet launched, one of the guys who started it really screwed it over internally), and there are quite a few altporn sites at this point.

Some have fairly good sized memberships too, but they seem to know how to run their businesses just a little bit more professionally and not create so much pointless chaos for their models and members both.

x0x0

Dia

hi, my name is Lavinia, I'm a model for Manicjane.com. they're a site much like suicde girls in many respects, but they're so much different in a lot of respects as well. i guess i'll just start this off by saying, not all alt-porn pin up girl sites are like suicide girls. I applied to suicide girls and was accepted. I have spoken with many suicide girls over a few years and have built very close relationships with some of them. I have heard both bad and good, love and hate, and likes and dislikes from all of them. I decided not to do suicide girls for a few reasons.
1. I have heard that they have had problems getting money to the girls for their sets.
2. I had a huge lack of communication from Missy about the site and the things that I am writing now seemed to have fallen on deaf ears. I got no replies, no notification that they recieved the 6 e-mails I had sent, nothing. I do not like that i couldn't get my concerns and questions answered by anyone of authority.
3. I did not like that the girls are forbidden to talk about/mention that they are in a relationship in order to seem "mysterious" To me it seemed like they wanted the girls to seem available.
4. The fact that they archive girls who disagree with things on the site, get too popular, etc. is rediculous to me. I did not want to live in fear as so many girls I have spoken with have been.
5. I did not like that they don't like their girls modelling for other sites. They specifically state in their terms of service, and I quote " How often do you buy sets from the SuicideGirls? How often can I send you sets to purchase?
As long as you do not have a set waiting to go up, you may submit a set to us for consideration. If you model exclusively for SuicideGirls and are an active member of the community we will most likely buy sets from you as often as you send them in. If you model for a number of sites and/or are not active on SuicideGirls, we will most likely only be able to buy sets from you very occasionally.
6. they are now affiliated with playboy. I originally wanted to do SG because they seemed like a really independant site that was aginst the whole playboy sexiness is a fake baked 7 foot fake boobed barbie. And now they're doing things with them... blah. I don't like that at all... it seems too corporate whore for me.
7. They have a 6-8 month waiting list for sets to go up. screw that. I wouldn't want to wait that long, i (personally) want a site where it's like a family. Not a conveyor belt in a factory of "alternative models." I'm not saying the girls aren't georgeous, i just wouldn't want to be in that sort of "environment" personally. I want something that seems cozie, friendly and inviting.
8. I have heard that they have rejected models for being "pudgy" etc. I don't like that either.

Not that suicide girls is an evil place or whatever, i'm a member and i am friends with the girls, it's just not the place for me. Manicjane.com is one of the most awesome sites i have come in contact with so far. First off all the girls are super sweet, Jack (the guy who runs the site) is awesome, i have never gone more than a day without him getting in contact with me about anything i e-mailed or asked. there's a bulliten board that you can communicate with all the models through, and all of them are super nice and super friendly. I actually have formed really nice friendships with almost all of them and have heard nothing but good things. The boards are moderated and kept clean and inviting. There's no rude or nasty comments about pics that people post, etc . I fell in love with the site the moment I saw it. I also know that the girls on the site have nothing especially bad about the other sites they model for either. (eroticbpm, silverskirt, nofauxxx, etc. I have heard that fatal beauty is picky with their models but if you get accepted, super nice. (i got rejected by FB because I wasn't the look they were after, lol.) But i just though that i should let you know from someone who has researched, and been involved with for a while, not to judge all sites based on the negative things you heard about one.
I hope this helps you be better informed and helps you understand that all sites are not the same. :)

i also model for eroticbpm and manic jane.. and i have had no problems with either sites and the owners and members of the sites are wonderful.. puls their very open...

also i wasa member on sg for about a year and a couple of months.. then i decided to leave because the community was getting too jaded and filled with assholes that would talk out of their ass and such.

but i too back in august of 2002 had a interview with missy.. and well she didn't talk much to me at all.. and just really sat their and glared at me and asked questions you would be asked if you were getting a job.but non the les si was rejected and told to apply in 6 months again...but during that time i had a disagreement with spooky(aka sean) ..cause we didn have the same ideas about something adn was there for told never to apply again cause i would not be accepted nor would they even look at my application.

plus that place there is just way to much drama... and asecrets and lies .. and it's just not a healthy enviroment...

but about manic jane and eroticbpm... i feel in love with those places immediatly cause i am treated like a person and they listen to what i have to say and my opions and ideas.. and when they do delete comment or something they give you an explantation.. and are not secretive about it(i.e. sg)

i model for like a gillion sites... and none of them even come close to treating me like sg did... the owners of the sites i'm on now are really great, i get treated with much respect and the sites that have communitys are really nice... for reals... the only sites i've ever had problems with would be suicidegirls and intensitygirls... both of those sites are awful

IG was originally supposed to launch in like.... oct/nov.

Which is completely typical for him.

To me, the claimed rate isn't so much the problem. The problem to me is that it is misrepresentative. Those rates for a photo session where several sets are shot aren't horrible (if that's what you really end up getting, and I've heard from several models that it's not, but whatever.) The required exclusivity, months of journal involvement, and pressure to do things like the Probot video for free, well, they kinda makes that rate start to look a little thin. I don't think I own a model just because I shot with them once or twice. So, the real independent sites are all trying to scramble to be able to match that claimed rate, but they certainly are not getting the same level of extra work for paying that much. So, I guess I'm saying that the rates are not bad, it's just what is expected from the models that is too much.

We obviously give our models memberships to the sites, so long as they don't abuse them by sharing them with everybody they know. If they feel like participating in the forums, they are welcome to do that, but they certainly are not required to. We have profiles on some of the sites, and if they feel like filling them out, that's cool, and if not, it's no big deal.

When Blue Blood sites negotiate to run featured picture sets on a big corporate site, we negotiate to give the models a percentage. A while back, we featured some girls from BarelyEvil.com and GothicSluts.com on the Penthouse site, so we talked to the girls to make sure it was cool with them and then paid them a bonus for being on the other site. Ultimately, we thought about the fact that the big corporate sites seemed to want to pay less for pictures of cool people than they did for pictures of more standard models, and we didn't think that was right, so we stopped after about four feature sets.

Now, my perspective on payment is that I want to pay a reasonable rate, but to be honest, I really only want to shoot with people that would have shot with us for free because they wanted to anyway. Yeah, we do pay decently, but I don't want that to be the primary motivation to shoot with us. I want to work with folks that want to create awesome images together, not people who will slog through a set because rent is due or something. Working with cool people that are really into it makes a huge difference to us.

Then it's honestly up to a gut check on which is the driving factor.

It certainly can be work, and that's why we pay, but I think that whole 'it's a job' perspective can get in the way of creating art. You sound a little like the SG folks that argue 'It's a business'. To me, modeling for cool pictures should be more than just a job. Face it, you could make more money selling hotdogs on the streetcorner than you would booking shoots with ALL the altp0rn sites in the genre. That's why I'm saying the money should be a bonus on top of your desire to shoot with whoever you are shooting with. Yes, it's totally reasonable to want to get paid, I just want to work with people that give a damn about who exactly they are shooting with, and not just punching a clock for whomever signs the check.

As a photographer, it's evident to me that different sorts of jobs pay different amounts. If I were to shoot for Playboy, I'd get paid a different amount than I would if I were shooting the cover of my favorite Gothic zine or whatever. The hard part for the models I think, is knowing who essentially is Playboy and who really is underground and cool. We pay a fair amount for the job, but I would hate to think that someone was just doing it as a job. There is really no way to separate out those motivations these days, and I was just saying that it bugs me a little. I've certainly seen some big name photographers shoot girls for some big name publications and pay absolutely nothing, because they had such a big name or whatever. I certainly have issues with that sometimes, as I know it's work to be in front of the camera as well. Now, as far as what you are saying, I'm not pressuring anybody to shoot with us at all. Our standards are fairly high and there are certain things that have nothing to do with external looks that are also very important to us when it comes to choosing who we work with

I've been shooting cool erotica for a very long time. It is my feeling that the internet and adult websites in particular have really screwed some things up, to a certain extent. We used to lose crazy amounts of money to put out magazines celebrating subcultural erotica and we really couldn't pay much at all, but we were passionate about it, and so were the people we worked with. We put together some kick-ass stuff at great personal sacrifice. Those days are gone. Those battles have been won. And now it's a fuck of a lot easier for all the internet train-jumping ALT sites selling vaguely cool looking naked people. But, the passion is gone, or, for some of the people involved in this little scene, never even existed. There are pros and cons. I can afford to pay more now, but I still don't want someone who looks at creating art as just a job. Our models know it's more than that.

Sure, there are people who will do anything and say anything to get models to work with them. That's why models should work with the folks they know and respect.

I felt like someone from the dark side had to come in and give her perspective.

1. I am extremely friendly with a large percentage of the models, and none of us have ever had problems with being paid. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen that sometimes checks get lost in the shuffle, but the majority of the time, we do get paid and it is the full amount ($300). Nobody gets $35 anymore. However, we do get paid less for two girl sets.
2. There was no "pressure to do the Probot shoot for free." It was very open from the beginning that we weren't going to get paid, and it wasn't like a large number of us were talked into doing it. No, we all clamored to be chosen by the director and were thrilled for just the plane ticket. It's not pressure if you're willing,
3. The "mystery" of being "forbidden" to talk about one's SO is more encouraged than forced. I would say half of the actively posting girls talk about their SOs regularly, and they don't suffer for it.
4. There have been some archivings that I do not agree with. This is a palpable weirdness, but I feel it is the only one.
5. The majority of the girls were thrilled at the prospect of being in Playboy. Once again, it's not like we were dragged kicking and screaming. And those of us who don't want to be in it respectfully declined.

This is all I can can punch out befpre I can make it to class.

As far as Playboy goes, if it were me, I'd pay the girls that were cool with it more for that kind of exposure, but it's not, so no big deal.

They are getting paid more.

Just doing my part to ensure the survival of truth in the universe. :D

i knew they were getting paid more, but they're not getting PLAYBOY kinda money...that's what bothers me.

court.
mafia.

see.

It will be *at least* a year until they run out of girls that said they were interested. The majority were fucking thrilled at the prospect. I doubt the feature will be around for that long.

And, obviously, the reaction among the models if a girl who didn't want to be in Playboy was put in Playboy would have massive ramifications. Y'all may not like Sean, but I think you can all agree that he's a smarter businessman than that.

Oh, it was just talked up as a temporary thing. I really don't know.

And, yeah, the contracts to become Suicide Girls legally sell our photosets to SG Services, Inc. for all eternity. So if they wanted to, they could put me in Playboy or on punkteenwhores.com. It's a pretty standard modeling contract.

I know I'm just a poor misinformed 20-year-old who's been duped by the promise of stardom and the evil media machine that is SG, but I really don't think Sean's a bad guy***. I'd bet my next set paycheck that only the willing girls end up on Playboy.

***Note: If you wish to make an attempt to change my opinion, please do so via email at fluxsuicide@yahoo.com and not on here. And I highly discourage it as a probable waste of time, as I've been reading this LJ for months, and my opinion has yet to falter.

I model for Manic Jane.
As was mentioned before.. Its great to meet the rest of the girls and Jack. Everyone is extremely caring and spunky.
Jack always responds when you need him.
I love this place a lot.
Its been treating me well so far. <3
-Maxx