Ryan (rhealz) wrote in [info]seattle,
@ 2004-05-09 23:00:00
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Current music:not Muse

Muse show
Ok, I just returned from seeing Muse at Neumos. I think it was during the third song the lead singer/guitarist and the bassist stepped away from the microphones to talk about some problems with their instruments when out of nowhere the vocals kicked in - unfortunately no one on stage was anywhere near a microphone.

He was either lip-synching or singing over pre-recorded vocals. It was pretty disappointing. I'm glad I only paid $15 for my ticket rather than the several hundreds of dollars they were being sold for on eBay.

Was anyone else at the show? Comments? That little blunder ruined the entire thing for me - unless there is some other explanation someone can offer.

Update:

Thanks to daymented for digging a little deeper on the purported lip-synching and informing me that Muse was probably using a Vocoder. It was also confirmed that the band did indeed sing, but probably was singing over vocals provided by the Vocoder - at least on one song.

Not nearly as sinister as I first thought, but I'm still a bit turned off by the whole thing. However, I'm sure Muse will survive.


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[info]apathyboy
2004-05-09 11:16 pm UTC (link)
Never heard of them, but something like that would really turn me off from the band. That reall sucks.

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[info]wesa
2004-05-09 11:19 pm UTC (link)
Ouch!

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[info]ermac
2004-05-09 11:22 pm UTC (link)
are you sure it wasn't just backing vocals or extra harmonies? i don't see the harm in that, especially if they only use one singer but a lot of vocal tracks on their album.

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rhealz
2004-05-09 11:27 pm UTC (link)
yeah, I'm positive it wasn't backing vocals or extra harmonies because when the phantom vocals started the singer hurried back to the microphone and began singing right along as if nothing had happened.

after the song was over I heard some indistinct, angry yelling from the upper bar area. the band looked pretty disoriented after that and it took them a couple songs to recover fully.

then the drummer said something to the effect of "some gigs are just shit, you know?" - either referring to the blundered lip-synch or the problems with their instruments.

the whole thing was pretty bizarre.

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[info]ermac
2004-05-09 11:31 pm UTC (link)
that is pretty weird. and too bad. perhaps not lip-synching is a strange american custom to them :P

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[info]thenobodygirl
2004-05-09 11:44 pm UTC (link)
It was all Dom's fault, I'm sure.

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[info]someoddhours
2004-05-10 12:53 pm UTC (link)
honestly, i think they were just back up vocals. the song that it happened on has a weird robotic background effect on his voice. i know that the band had some pre-recorded keyboard parts and i think on this particular song they had some of the backups pre-recorded too. i noticed it right away and thought it was odd, but it seemed like when the vocal part started playing on it's own, they were only the backups and when he made it back over to the mic, his normal lead vocal came back. during the rest of the show, he was really on, but not always. i noticed a lot of parts he had either changed or he was a little flat on. i don't think they would have pre-recorded mistakes. if they did though, what the hell? that's low. but i really don't think that was the case. that's just my two cents...

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rhealz
2004-05-10 01:25 pm UTC (link)
I'm 100% sure it wasn't backup vocals. It was his voice and his lyric that we heard. When he stepped to the mic nothing changed in the sound - it was just him singing along with what had already started playing.

I couldn't say whether he lip-synched the rest of the show, but I know he at least lip-synched or sung over that particular song.

As an aside, I just got an email from Andrew Harms (End dj) who said this:

"that was weird
i know that he would trigger a bunch of sound effects from some foot switches that he had on stage...guess vocal switches were part of that as well.

pretty embarassing for them
geez"

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[info]supersat
2004-05-09 11:26 pm UTC (link)
Several possibilities come to mind, but I think they've got some splainin' to do.

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[info]thenobodygirl
2004-05-09 11:34 pm UTC (link)
Dude, that's totally upsetting.

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[info]ampliatum
2004-05-09 11:39 pm UTC (link)
No offense to you but I never liked that band and think its hilarious this happend.

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rhealz
2004-05-09 11:45 pm UTC (link)
none taken. i'm not a big fan - just happened to be offered a ticket by a friend. certainly not a fan now.

what i find really funny is that "harms" (the dipshit DJ from The End) introduced the band by saying that we were about to "see the best show we'd ever see in our lives" - talk about a misstatement.

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[info]ampliatum
2004-05-09 11:49 pm UTC (link)
I saw them open one time, their stage presence was terrible, maybe its because they were worried about their tracks looping, pulling an 'ol Mili Vanilli on them.

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[info]thenobodygirl
2004-05-09 11:45 pm UTC (link)
wtf, Muse own you. What's not to like?

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[info]ampliatum
2004-05-09 11:47 pm UTC (link)
What do you mean what's not to like?
They're boring, unoriginal, and annoying.
Plus the fact that they have to string their vocals in, laughing stock.
Its my call, its my opinion.
Chill out on me, I said 'no offense to you' don't gang up on me cheif.

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[info]thenobodygirl
2004-05-09 11:50 pm UTC (link)
If I had been serious, I would have followed my comment with
this --> >:(

I'm chillaxed, if you're chillaxed.

And "i" before "e", except after "c".

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[info]ampliatum
2004-05-09 11:51 pm UTC (link)
Yes, I know, typos happen.

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[info]theprodigalson
2004-05-10 12:57 am UTC (link)
But if you follow that rule, wouldn't he be correct in spelling it "cheif" since it is after C?

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[info]thenobodygirl
2004-05-10 07:07 am UTC (link)
No, it's after an "h", dumbass.

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[info]caraccident
2004-05-10 05:28 am UTC (link)
You forgot the second part to that rule which is:

"I" before "e" except after "c," or when sounding like "ay" as in "neighbor" or "weigh."

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[info]clarice
2004-05-09 11:40 pm UTC (link)
ha, I kind of like Muse but for some reason I don't find that all that surprising (call me cynical...)

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Lame
[info]spikdangel
2004-05-10 12:23 am UTC (link)
That is one thing that I severely hate.
If I pay money to see a live concert, I better get a live concert.

I would rather hear a wavering live voice, than to see/hear a lip-singing performance. Bands lose thier credibility that way. But, unfortunately, I think it is slowly becoming an industry standard for the pre-recorded stuff.

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[info]chinesebomb
2004-05-10 08:19 am UTC (link)
Wow. how was the reaction of the audience in general? did many people notice this besides some yelling from the bar? I just saw muse in the east coast last month and it was an 'amazing' show. the vocal did sound very similar to the cd but so were julian casablancas' usually. this sucks man. and it would REALLY suck big time if they do this night after night.

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rhealz
2004-05-10 01:02 pm UTC (link)
I was standing in the back very close to the guy who checks ID at the door. When it happened, I turned to my friend with a look of "what the f was that?!" on my face. He was just as surprised as I was. I was mostly looking at the back of people's heads from where I was standing but I heard several people behind me talking about it. The guy who was working the door couldn't see the stage from where he was standing and asked me what everyone was talking about. When I told him that the singer was lip-synching he just smiled and shook his head.

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I was there
[info]daymented
2004-05-10 12:36 pm UTC (link)
...And I was so far away I didn't see the step-away-from-the-mike thing.
But it wouldn't surprise me.
I came home from the show and told my husband they sounded "astoundingly good."
And then someone posts about the lip synching on my site.

I keep checking my mail to see if the John Richards daily e-mail has been sent out yet, because surely people would be talking about this, but it's a fund-raising week, so he may not post the usual e-mails. Hmpf.

My cousin Jason works at Neumo's so I've called him but I got his VM. I *will* get to the bottom of this!

(Kicking myself for not paying attention.... too many pretty lights to distract me!)

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Re: I was there
rhealz
2004-05-10 01:04 pm UTC (link)
Cool. Please post something here if/when you hear anything else about it.

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Re: I was there
rhealz
2004-05-10 01:12 pm UTC (link)
I just visited your website and read thread about the show. You must have been standing relatively close to where I was standing - I was very near the guy working the door. Right after it happened several people behind me commented about it and the door guy eventually asked me what happened.

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Re: I was there
[info]daymented
2004-05-10 02:59 pm UTC (link)
Okay so I was just to the left of you.
I'd tell you I was wearing jeans and a black t-shirt but I guess that would narrow me down to about 87% of the attendees.

Were you the guys laughing at the devil-horn flinging afro-boy? Oh, no, wait, that was everyone.

No response from my cousin yet. But after the show they were bringing tons and tons of trunks in to be packed up, and Jason said they brought tons of equipment but now instead of being impressed, I'm thinking Hmmmm.....

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Re: I was there
rhealz
2004-05-10 03:32 pm UTC (link)
Heh. I was wearing jeans and a black Miles Davis t-shirt, blue hat.

That guy with the afro was hilarious. I remember him being the only one clapping through half of a song before someone finally asked him to stop.

After the show I was talking with my friend about it and we both agreed that if we hadn't seen what happened with the lip-synch mistake it would have been one of the better small club shows either of us have ever seen.

At the very least, I enjoyed the club. Will definitely return to Neumos for future shows.

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Re: I was there
[info]daymented
2004-05-10 04:40 pm UTC (link)
O-KAY!

Jason says they were really singing, but they did have a vocoder, and some vocals to play ALONG WITH the band. He didn't think those vocals were used for every song, either.

Then I said "So, did they really sing?"
And he said "Yes, they really did sing."

Then I said "Can I get on the guest list for Peaches tomorrow?"

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Re: I was there
rhealz
2004-05-10 05:10 pm UTC (link)
Very good.

Perhaps I'll adjust my original post to include this new information. It was such an obvious gaffe I wish one of the guys would've explained that they weren't technically lip-synching. Oh well.

Enjoy Peaches. That should be a hell of show.

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Re: I was there
[info]peddiewolf
2004-05-11 12:05 pm UTC (link)
That devil-horn flinging afro-boy had quite a good little operation going on near the end of the show (unless this is a different devil-horn flinging afro-boy, though I shiver at the thought of a plurality of these lads). He would wriggle his incredibly tall body in front of a particularly short girl in the crowd (like myself) and then offer his shoulders as a perch to provide better visibility. Mind, the visibility was fine until he slithered in. Though perhaps it would have come in handy during the vocal-scandal thingummy. I was too short to have any clue what was going on, but had attempted several times to remark above the noise of the crowd to my friend that the vocals sounded almost exactly like those on the cd. Still, there were a lot of obvious differences too. I'm flummoxed.

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Re: I was there
rhealz
2004-05-11 01:28 pm UTC (link)
You're flummoxed? I'm positively befuddled. Especially after reading this review of the concert:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/pop/172700_muse11q.html

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Re: I was there
[info]peddiewolf
2004-05-11 03:09 pm UTC (link)
I read the same review. See, the thing is, my impression that the vocals--and, frankly, every other aspect of the songs performed--were eerily similar to those captured for all eternity on their cds eventually faded as the night went on. As I mentioned, I intended to comment upon this oddity to my friend right after Apocalypse Please, but was initially unable to do so thanks to the deafening volume of the music (and was anybody else deaf/hearing nothing but high-pitched whining noises in one or both ears for a significant amount of time after the show, or am I just a gargantuan weenie?). By the end of the show, there was such a live and electrifying feeling to the performance that my suspicions were lost--if not entirely destroyed--amidst my sweaty I-just-danced-like-a-coked-up-muppet exhaustion. I walked away with the impression that they had rip-rocked the fuck out of that lovable-excuse-for-a-rat-trap club. I had seen the tail end of their performance at the Coachella festival in California only a few days before, and the wild, raw energy appeared to be the same. I don't know what to think about this possible Milli Vanilli fiasco. I understand using that whatever-it's-called stuffola technology thingummy (and yes, I'm always this magnificently eloquent) to provide background vocals during a live performance, to ensure that live renditions of their music don't feel lacking when compared to the recorded versions. And being short and trapped behind a trio of too-cool-for-words-or-movement-or-possibly-even-breathing high school students, I was unable to see the events that led up to the comment about some gigs being shit (or whatever thing what's-his-face said that my lazy paraphrase has failed to frame). I just assumed it had something to do with the way Neumo's speakers were making my left ear detach itself from my head and indignantly go on strike to demand better working conditions for itself and its compatriot. I had no idea the comment possibly referred to their humiliating exposure as talentless lip-synchers thanks to a technical failure. All I know is I've seen Joseph Arthur attempt to use similar equipment in order to perform his music entirely solo, and that this equipment seems to always break down. But either way, I'm feeling sort of insulted and confused. I've been intending to write a review of this concert that I thought was wildly fantastic, and now I'm tripping up on a fear that all the spiffyness sprang entirely from my own enthusiasm and a bunch of pre-recorded bullshit.

Someone say it ain't so.

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Re: I was there
rhealz
2004-05-11 06:37 pm UTC (link)
Indeed, when I walked out of the club, I literally couldn't hear anything for several minutes. A guy in front of me, when not sniveling on his girlfriend's sleeve, had his fingers in his ears for the majority of the show. I toughed it out and hid a desperate fear that my ears were bleeding.

I have a suggestion regarding your review. Write one as if you had no knowledge of this thread or the purported lip-synching/vocoder fiasco. Then write a second review taking into account said knowledge. It might sound a little schizoid, but you'll be able to express your innocent enthusiasm while at the same time covering your ass.

The other choice, I suppose, is to remain paralyzed by a confusing set of circumstances. I'm sure it won't cause permanent damage, unlike the permanent hearing loss you've suffered as a result of either a fantastically arranged performance or a desperate attempt at deceiving a faithful fan base. Either way, Muse is brilliant. Time will tell whether it's an evil brilliance or something much less sinister.

By the way, I actually laughed (out loud) at your self-deprecating comment indicating a lack of eloquence. Your humility is noted but unnecessary.

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(Anonymous)
2004-07-01 01:01 am UTC (link)
I missed the Seattle show, unfortunately, but managed to make the Vancouver show, and can say with plenty of confidence that it was simply one of the best rock shows I've ever seen. I can't explain what you saw or heard, since I wasn't there, but as a fan of the band for the past two years, I can only express extreme doubt that it was lip-synching of any kind. All I can suggest is that he was doing vocal loops using the effect pedals, ala Howie Day, which is a distinct possibility.

Regardless, in my humble opinion, Muse is one of the best rock bands out there today, and Matt one of the best guitarists.

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rhealz
2004-07-01 02:29 am UTC (link)
Interesting. You must have saved this comment for awhile.

I found out what happened at the Seattle show, btw. They use something called a Vocoder which is a "vocal enhancer" - it's not technically lip-synching but more like singing over their own vocals.

It was still really bad - although I will forgive them in due time as I'm aware that they're not the only band to do this.

Thanks for your comment, though.

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