Liz ([info]despotliz) wrote in [info]instant_fanzine,
@ 2004-05-21 00:24:00
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Current music:Schindler's List - Making the List

Hugos for Short Story, 2004
I swear I was reading these before Geneva's post, really.


Michael A. Burstein, "Paying it Forward" (Analog Sep 2003)
Basic premise - an SF writer communicates with his mentor via email. His mentor happens to be dead.
The weakest of the stories to my view. I never really feel much for the central character, and there's an overuse of modern day and internet references which just sticks out in the story. The opening gambit I'm sure has been done many times before and far better, and the ending is ultimately confusing and has a gem of a good idea wrapped up in some obfuscating language. It feels too much like a young writer giving an obvious tribute to the older crowd, and the messages from beyond the grave, while given an original slant by it being email, is still dull.

Mike Resnick, "Robots Don't Cry" (Asimov's Jul 2003)
Basic premise: There's a robot. It can't cry. It's all very sad.
This feels oddly old fashioned, both in ideas and execution. I like the beginning and the promise contained there a lot more than I ended up liking the story. The ending this time is straightforward and more than a little predictable. The Baroni is the most likeable and interesting character, which is a shame since he's only the random alien sidekick.

Joe Haldeman, "Four Short Novels" (F&SF Oct/Nov 2003)
Basic premise: There's these 4 stories all starting with "Eventually it came to pass that no one ever had to die".
There's certainly lots of ideas here. Again it starts strongly, with the first two stories making a good start, the third being a little less good, and then going out with a whimper instead of a bang. But there was something missing I couldn't quite put my finger on, and I think it's the writing. It's all fine, decent prose, but there's less of the elegance than I like.

David D. Levine, "The Tale of the Golden Eagle" (F&SF Jun 2003
Premise: You can connect brains to spaceships to steer them. They connect a golden eagle brain to one. Wackiness ensues.
This is rather good, with a bit more of the fantastical element than the others. The protagonists get proper characters, as opposed to the sketchiness in some of the other stories (pretty much necessary in oens as short as the Haldeman stories, I realise). Again, the ending was a little predictable, but it's nicely done, and the structure of the story leads up to it well.

Neil Gaiman, "A Study in Emerald" (Shadows Over Baker Street
Premise: Ah, just go and read this one. I'm not spoiling it, but I will say it's a murder-mystery, only not quite like that.
I lke this one. I really really like this one. It's by far the best of the shortlist. It's got everything I like in short stories. It's elegantly and beautifully written. It hints at things and leaves them unsaid for you to discover. It's got a great ending, and it's just distant enough from the world we know to make everything a little uncomfortable. And being Gaiman, there's a lovely sense of gothic horror.

I'm tempted to subscribe to a short fiction magazine next year, but if this is the Hugo shortlist I'm less tempted. There's only 3 of the 5 I really liked, and these are supposedly the best of the year.




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[info]gummitch
2004-05-21 01:03 am UTC (link)
I'm tempted to subscribe to a short fiction magazine next year

Now it's under new management, you could try subscribing to Interzone. Or, there's a new mag by PS Publishing, Postscripts. Or, there's the magazine whose management has taken over Interzone, href="http://www.ttapress.com/publTTA.html">The Third Alternative</a>.

(Forgive me, I seem to be mounting a one-person campaign to maximise the British contingent on the Hugo ballot next year.)




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[info]coalescent
2004-05-21 01:43 am UTC (link)
(Forgive me, I seem to be mounting a one-person campaign to maximise the British contingent on the Hugo ballot next year.)

As I understand the nominations, it's members of the '04 worldcon whose votes go towards the '05 shortlist. Is that correct? Then we get to vote on it, and nominate for '06. So really, the '06 list is the one I'd expect to be brit-skewed...

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[info]gummitch
2004-05-21 03:05 am UTC (link)
Not as I understand it. (Checks Worldcon.org)

Aha. When you register as an attending or supporting member of an upcoming Worldcon, you are allowed to nominate for the Hugo shortlist and vote for the Hugos at that Worldcon. Therefore, if you're registered in sufficient time for Interaction in '05, then you'll be able to nominate and vote in the Hugos for that year.

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[info]coalescent
2004-05-21 03:35 am UTC (link)
Oh, excellent. *rubs hands together* Newton's Wake, Iron Sunrise and Algebraist on the novel ballot, then? ;-)

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[info]gummitch
2004-05-21 04:54 am UTC (link)
Not forgetting Iron Council and River of Gods.

Which may be too many candidates. We may need to organise a conspiracy.

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[info]coalescent
2004-05-21 05:05 am UTC (link)
Oh, I hadn't even thought beyond Scotland yet. ;-)

I think The Iron Council is probably the closest thing there is to a sure bet for next year's novel list. Seeing River of Gods on there would be nifty. I also have a feeling that Adam Roberts' The Snow might be something special, and I think I'm contractually obliged to at least consider nominating Exultant...and let's not forget there are new Al Reynolds and Jon Courtenay Grimwood books on the way. And, ok, he's not a brit, but does City of Saints and Madmen count as a novel?

...Must calm down. It's only May!

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[info]gummitch
2004-05-21 05:23 am UTC (link)
Oh, to be a Clarke award judge this year.

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[info]gummitch
2004-05-21 05:31 am UTC (link)
Further info, there's an FAQ on the interaction website: http://www.interaction.worldcon.org.uk/hugofaq.htm

Members of the previous Worldcon can nominate. Members of the current Worldcon (defined for these purposes as Interaction in '05), can nominate if they are registered as attending or supporting members before 31 January 2005.

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[info]coalescent
2004-05-21 01:40 am UTC (link)
['Paying It Forward'] The weakest of the stories to my view.

Yep. This is why I don't subscribe to Analog any longer. :)

['Roboys Don't Cry']

Please believe me when I say that almost every other short story published in Asimov's last year was better than this.

['Four Short Novels'] But there was something missing I couldn't quite put my finger on, and I think it's the writing. It's all fine, decent prose, but there's less of the elegance than I like.

Hmm. I think this is actually my favourite of the five; ok, so it's basically four short-short stories that only have a thematic connection, but it's very inventive, and I liked the writing.

['The Tale of the Golden Eagle']This is rather good, with a bit more of the fantastical element than the others.

Well, it is from F&SF. ;-) It's probably second-favourite, for me.

['A Study In Emerald'] I lke this one. I really really like this one. It's by far the best of the shortlist.

Eh. Felt like it was trying far too hard, to me, and my need for Cthulu fanfic basically starts and ends with The Atrocity Archives.

I'm tempted to subscribe to a short fiction magazine next year, but if this is the Hugo shortlist I'm less tempted. There's only 3 of the 5 I really liked, and these are supposedly the best of the year.

It's touching how you think that the Hugos are still an accurate barometer of quality.

(That said, read the novellette shortlist; it's much much stronger.)

Anyway:

The Third Alternative is dark. Dark fantasy, mostly, but also some dark sf. As long as it's dark, really.
Interzone...well, who knows what the new Interzone will be like?
Postscripts: High hopes for this. Quarterly publication, 200pp or so each issue, and the lineup for issues one and two at least is very impressive.
Asimov's/F&SF: Little to separate them in terms of quality, I think. Asimov's tends more towards the sf (but has some fantasy), F&SF is about a fifty-fifty split.
Analog: Just don't bother.
SciFiction: read this. Every week. Almost invariably excellent.

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[info]despotliz
2004-05-21 04:12 am UTC (link)
I am a young and naive fangirl, and still think the Hugos count for something.

Actually I realised that I'd only ever really paid attention to the Novel and Dramatic Presentation awards before, and that maybe since I can vote in them soon I should get a feel for the quality of te other categories. The novella and novelette lists are next.

Postscripts sounds like it might be my thing, dependent on how Interzone shakes down.

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[info]coalescent
2004-05-21 04:44 am UTC (link)
I'm actually at a loss to explain why the short fiction list is so rubbish. You would think that less ballots might mean a more informed audience and thus a higher percentage of quality, but apparently not.

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[info]greengolux
2004-05-21 02:55 am UTC (link)
I swear I was reading these before Geneva's post, really.

This is because we are the Geekstalt, we are of one mind, and we all naturally tend towards the reading of short fiction at the same time. It's the only explanation, clearly.

I'm tempted to subscribe to a short fiction magazine next year

I'm tempted to subscribe to more short fiction magazines. They are great. I heartily recommend getting yourself a subscription to something at least. Niall gives good advice, so listen to him.

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[info]despotliz
2004-05-21 04:10 am UTC (link)
Hive mind! Hive mind!

Actually it's because short fiction is a good length to read at the end of a day of revision, but the hive mind thing sounds better.

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[info]snowking
2004-05-21 04:20 am UTC (link)
Michael A. Burstein, "Paying it Forward" (Analog Sep 2003)

Ugh. Just ugh.

Mike Resnick, "Robots Don't Cry" (Asimov's Jul 2003)

Aww. Por ded robot.

Joe Haldeman, "Four Short Novels" (F&SF Oct/Nov 2003)

I thought this was a bit crap. Reminded me of Swanick's (?) Periodic Table of SF but less ambitious and more, well, crap. The last one is over-sweet but a tad amusing as I misread a sentence and though the kangaroo did something. Fnar. The third is just there so there can be four, the second is actually quite good and the first has a nice set-up but the ending has me shouting about market crashes in post-scarcity economies and suspensions of disbelief.

David D. Levine, "The Tale of the Golden Eagle" (F&SF Jun 2003

Rather sweet and well written.

Neil Gaiman, "A Study in Emerald" (Shadows Over Baker Street

Tee hee. And very well written.

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[info]despotliz
2004-05-21 04:32 am UTC (link)
You, my good man, are rightheaded. The Gaiman story is great. I've never read the periodic table of SF one, though.

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[info]snowking
2004-05-21 04:37 am UTC (link)
This link is not to be clicked until after your finals.

I think PS is publishing the whole thing at some point. A book may be a more readable format but I think it'll lose something in not having the clickable table.

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[info]coalescent
2004-05-21 04:39 am UTC (link)
End of 2004 is the plan.

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[info]coalescent
2004-05-21 04:43 am UTC (link)
the first has a nice set-up but the ending has me shouting about market crashes in post-scarcity economies and suspensions of disbelief.

I think we may have different definitions of 'post-scarcity economy.' What's yours?

[thinks to self: I think the time has come for my plan to cull the Gaiman fanpeople.]

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[info]snowking
2004-05-21 04:46 am UTC (link)
A world where the ONLY commodities are immortality and your own skills. Sounds post-scarcity to me. What should have happened at the end was the last adult alive buying up all the skills for nothing and become God. Or similar.

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[info]coalescent
2004-05-21 04:54 am UTC (link)
I thought post-scarcity applied specifically to physical resources - things like information should still count.

But anyway, the point was the people didn't want knowledge and skills; there wasn't anyone who wanted to be God. They wanted to regress. In fact, that's exactly why that segment is so effective.

(I also disagree that it's like the Swanwick; I agree that the Swanwick is better, but (a) it's bigger and (b) it's a game, not a story.)

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[info]snowking
2004-05-21 06:07 am UTC (link)
It's exactly why that segment is rubbish!

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[info]coalescent
2004-05-21 06:19 am UTC (link)
I don't follow. It's Geneva's smart-vs-happy thought experiment, but everyone opts for happy. Where's the problem? It's not like it was portrayed as a good thing.

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[info]snowking
2004-05-21 06:21 am UTC (link)
Because it snapped credulity beyond belief. Because people wouldn't en masse choose for one or other option.

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[info]coalescent
2004-05-21 06:31 am UTC (link)
Firstly, I think you're missing the point of it being a what-if story, not an inevitable-truth prophecy. Secondly, I think you're missing the point that Haldeman was trying to make about what it might take to make you happy when you're immortal. Thirdly, and least importantly, I think you're missing the fact that he still takes the trouble to point out that they didn't choose en masse: it was a gradual societal shift.

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[info]greengolux
2004-05-21 06:46 am UTC (link)
Um, I did find it stretched my credulity somewhat.

If Haldeman's making a point about what it might take to make you happy when you're immortal, then it's not a very credible point. It does seem unlikely not only that everyone would chose to try out being a dicuth (which actually seems a reasonable assumption, given that they're immortal), but that they would eventually all choose to stay dicuths permanently.

Acutally though, the main problem is not, I think, down to the subject matter, but the fact that the style makes the whole thing seem kind of light-weight. The story is told in a credible manner, there's no attempt to create characters or to really explore what it would be like to live in that society. It's more of an outline of an idea for a short story, rather than a proper short story.

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Damn typos...
[info]greengolux
2004-05-21 06:49 am UTC (link)
"The story isn't told in a credible manner..."

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[info]coalescent
2004-05-21 07:00 am UTC (link)
It's more of an outline of an idea for a short story, rather than a proper short story.

Which is precisely why, for me, credibility doesn't come into it. The point of 'Four Short Novels' is not to create four plausible societies, it's to juxtapose four ideas. Pretty much by the definition of what Haldeman's doing, all the societies come from the outer reaches of probability. I don't think we're expected to believe in them, or relate to them - as you say, there are basically no characters. We're meant to think about them.

So for me, the question is not 'is this a likely outcome of immortality?' it's 'is this a possible outcome of immortality?' And the answer, for me, is yes. Immortality could lead to a complete stagnation of society. Any piece of writing that tried to spin a full story around the scenario would have some work to do, because I think it's an unlikely outcome, but within the context of 'Four Short Novels', I don't have a problem with it, because we're never meant to think about it in isolation.

Which is not to say that I think it's a great short story. There's no way I'd pick it for a best of the year list. But of the nominees we're stuck with, I think it's the most interesting and the most ambitious.

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[info]greengolux
2004-05-21 07:15 am UTC (link)
Which is precisely why, for me, credibility doesn't come into it. The point of 'Four Short Novels' is not to create four plausible societies, it's to juxtapose four ideas.

OK, fair enough. As I said to [info]snowking, in this context it's not appropriate to be too harsh on the subject matter of the story, because a lot of what makes the subject matter good is the way the story is told. And these, um, aren't. It's like a pitch for four potentially good short stories (or novels, even, and the second one's already been written: it's Brin's Kil'n People).

I don't think having a couple of good ideas should be enough to get you on the Hugo ballot. You should have at least used those ideas to write a story first. ;)

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[info]coalescent
2004-05-21 07:22 am UTC (link)
I don't think having a couple of good ideas should be enough to get you on the Hugo ballot. You should have at least used those ideas to write a story first.

Heh. I don't object to the principle of pitching multiple ideas at the reader - I think contrast is an effective device - but I think there needed to be a better linking device. As you say, it needed to be a story, rather than four pitches. Have it explicitly as four futures for the same society, for instance, or have a traveller jump between four different worlds. Something, anyway.

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[info]snowking
2004-05-21 06:46 am UTC (link)
Okay: As a what-if, it is dull and trite.

Better?

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[info]greengolux
2004-05-21 07:10 am UTC (link)
I don't think that's quite fair. Most what-ifs are dull and trite if they're not explored properly. There's potential there, but it's not exploited, and the whole seems less credible as a result.

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[info]coalescent
2004-05-21 07:16 am UTC (link)
Trite? That's an odd criticism. As you said, the ending where someone transcends is the more plausible one, and I can't think of another story where humanity deliberately turns away from sentience. Evolves away from it, yes, several, but that's a different matter.

Anyway, see also my response to Geneva.

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[info]greengolux
2004-05-21 06:29 am UTC (link)
It's Geneva's smart-vs-happy thought experiment

Um, that'll actually be Nozick's smart-vs-happy thought experiment that I happened to talk about at one point.

(Has just been reading about plagiarism and feels the urge to reference rightful owner of intellectual property.)

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[info]coalescent
2004-05-21 06:33 am UTC (link)
You know, I almost wrote 'the thought experiment that Geneva referred to', but took it out as unweildy. :)

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