Daniel ([info]weezerwill) wrote in [info]indie_jews,
@ 2005-07-31 09:05:00
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Current mood: blah

several issue with being an "indie-jew"

issue #1
Does anyone else notice that it seems very difficult, almost contradictory, to try and be an orthodox jew and some kinda artist. Im currently a film major etc and i find that my being into the arts seems very difficult while being an orthodox jew. So far i have been ok by not going to shoots that were on shabbat etc, but as i get close to the real world it becomes more apparent that being an observant jew and being in production of any kind seem almost impossible to do at the same time. Woh is me...

issue #2
After going on this program in New York, I've decided to only eat kosher food and ive started wearing a kippah. I think that its awesome for me to rep my jewishness where ever i go. But the problem is, as a rep for the Jewish people i shouldnt really be going to parties or doing things that would be seen as a chillul hashem (disgrace to gods name). ahh its so confusing!!!
.please help with any suggestions.


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[info]ex_glick431
2005-07-31 04:53 pm UTC (link)
Issue 1: no, it's not contradictory. There are many controversial and mainstream jewish artists.
Issue 2: you'll be fine. If someone gives you shit, tell them to fuck off.

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[info]weezerwill
2005-07-31 05:28 pm UTC (link)
i know that there are artists who are jewish but in terms of film, i find that oftentimes shabbat can be an issue in terms of working on set. i havent not kept shabbat because of film stuff but its a pain to be like yeah i would love to work on this video, but i have to keep shabbat. they then proceed to say sha-what? and i have to explain it to them without getting into a huge discussion. whatever its just an inconvenience not so much a huge problem. and as far as artistry, im not neccesarily trying to be controversial, but rather tell good stories through the medium of film ( if im given the chance that is)

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[info]sockmonkey13
2005-07-31 08:08 pm UTC (link)
it's harder when you're in school and have more constraints of when everyone is available and when you can get the equipment and all that, also on the crew you choose to work with. It will be different when you're calling the shots or doing your own projects where you and your producers and team can work out a schedule. However if you're going into Hollywood, there are probably times where you're going to have to choose or sacrifice becuase it's an industry, just like everyone who has something they care about has to work around and make decisions around the kind of business they want to work in. I played elite sports in school and it's really hard to find a good job that was willing to hire you when during the season you couldn't work weekends, when most businesses hiring students are establishments who do all thier business on the weekend. The same thing goes with film. If you're the star or the director or even the DP they will probably be willing to work around your schedule choices, but I doubt that as the best boy or worse a PA, they're going to hire you if they need you to work on Shabbat and you can't becuase of what you feel you need to do religiously.

That said I would bet that you can also find observant Jews who make films and work with them. There have even been some nice films coming out of Israel lately, so I would bet that they have an industry you can work with.

I don't think it's hard to be both an artist and observant it's just that you will have more challenges to sork around when working in an arts industry that is more team and group focused than say trying to juggle moving your opening reception to a Saturday after sundown instead of the more traditional Friday night if you're say a painter. Part of that reason is that it's hard to schedule so many people and also becuase the industry is so competitive that it's easier for those doing the hiring to choose someone of comparable talent with a completely open schedule.

I went to film school and I did my own thing, I went by my own schedule and I found people who would work around it, and I had people in the end seeking me out to collaborate with me, So I think you'll do fine getting others to work around your schedule (of course I think I'd sort of developed some cult status as some kind of hermit-like eccentric auteur so becuase I wasn't all chatty with people and seeking them out they assumed that I must be the kind of picky and demandig genuis they just had to do a project with because film school is kind of like that :) )

Plus there were a damn lot of other Jews in my school (even if the dining hall selections didn't show it) we flock to film :)

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[info]last_option
2005-08-01 06:28 am UTC (link)
maybe you should say it's the sabbath rather than being difficult and saying shabbat.

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[info]forevering
2005-07-31 05:03 pm UTC (link)
read my name is asher lev by chaim potok. i understand what you mena by seeing it to be difficult to be frum and an artist. i almost failed one of my art assignments at school because it was on life drawing and the model was a nude male, so i wouldn't go into the room. all i can suggest to you is that you remind yourself why you're trying to be frum. you -can- be as passionate and "controversial" as you like and keep to your values, i believe. you'll know that there are many many many different ways in which you can use language and imagery in order to get a point across, often without exactly saying or showing what it is.

i think that you'll be fine. dont go against your conscience whatever you do.

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[info]malignantmouse
2005-07-31 05:31 pm UTC (link)
1) If you're really independant (indie), then set your own filming schedule. That's what you should be striving for.

2) You can't expect yourself to be a role model at all times. Sure, if you're about to kill a hooker, you might want to take off the kippah. But if its just something minor and/or harmless, don't worry about it. Jews are real people, too.

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[info]weezerwill
2005-07-31 08:13 pm UTC (link)
1) cool.
2) i wasnt killing any hookers last night and stuff, but i was at a party and i was dancing with some friends. The fact that im not shomer negia and i still felt a bit odd about dancing is strange even to me. but i gues the whole wearing the kippah outside the confines of jewish school and shul is a bit foreign to me. im wearing it at work and at my internship, which is fine. although i do get a lot of stupid and annoying questions but thats what its all about. educating the fools.

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[info]malignantmouse
2005-07-31 08:15 pm UTC (link)
So you'll get used to it. Or you'll give up. But you have the potential to get used to it, and wearing it all the time won't seem as big a deal.
G'luck with it.

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[info]addled_brain
2005-07-31 08:43 pm UTC (link)
Kudos on strengthening in your Judaism! Just know that there a lot of Jews that straddle the secular world and remain strong (and religious) Jews at the same time. I know modern-orthedoxy is often the brunt of a joke, but you might want to talk to a rabbi who is one. Just remember you are human, so by nature you are going to eff up a every once in a while and it's okay. A lot of Judaism is the intention. For example in some cases if you truly intend to do a mitzvah but are unable to, you still get credit with God, like you did it.


Just keep this in mind, there are enough very "religious" Jews that Rikers has multiple minyans. Some people who appear externally do be the frummest of the frum, are when you peal away all the clothing, not great people. In my opinion it's a wonderful thing to be religous, but its more important to treat all people (Jewish and not) properly.


*shrug* That's just my two cents, I hope you found it helpful,

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[info]jahpraise
2005-07-31 08:58 pm UTC (link)
I've had the same problem myself. I'm a fine arts major at school but I'm mainly doing film work. I'm not orthodox, but I try to keep shabbat. Really the hardest thing now that I'm in school is trying to find a job that won't require me to work on Shabbat.

I agree about the indie artist thing. When I'm doing my own pieces, I schedule myself and my cast around Shabbat. For short films, I find that Sunday normally works just as well for everyone.

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[info]red_elephant
2005-08-01 03:44 am UTC (link)
You ask about religious filmmakers, have you seen Trembling Before God? I don't know if the director is frum but I'm sure none of the people who appeared in the film would have agreed to be filmed on shabbos. Actually, I haven't see the film but when the main gay rabbi in the film spoke at my school we had to make sure it was after shabbos before he would start.

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[info]daftwerk
2005-08-01 04:51 am UTC (link)
im a recent art school grad and my grandfather flat out refused to attend my class' commencement ceremony... he was against my studying art in the first place, even calling my school a "zionist corruptor of youth." hows that for orthodox? now, i love the man but he really is quite impossible.

i find this topic quite interesting because most of my jewish friends equate being "indie" with smoking marijuana. =/

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[info]tracyrock
2005-08-01 05:02 am UTC (link)
1. I know how frustrating it can be. Not that I've ever seriously pursued dance, but just from trying to get involved with it at the hobby level in college, I discovered that, for no particular reason, performances are always on Friday nights and Saturdays- and often, auditions, too. I even spoke to the head of dance at BU about it in regards to a specific dance group I had tried to join numerous times, and instead of saying, "wow, I didn't even realize that, and I might consider having performances at different times in the future," she just said, "yeah, for some reason, that's when performances have always traditonally been held in the dance world." If there are shomer shabbat dancers, I would be amazed. There are also other creative areas where it's basically impossible to be shomer shabbat, like if you're in a band or tour in some capacity with one, for instance.

However, it seems that at least in the film world, while production often takes place on shabbat, it doesn't always/doesn't have to/takes place on many days of which shabbat is just one. I feel like, it's annoying, but it's totally doable, to be shomer shabbat and work in film. (I know it's different, but, there's a shomer shabbat Jew on the cast of that recent sitcom with Pamela Anderson in it, the one set in a library or something. So at least we know that TV filming schedules can be worked around shabbat- though I know that film is different.)

2. You know, I've always had that same fear. I'd like to think that I would wear a kippah regularly if I were male, and have often wished there was an equivalent gesture for women, one that made it very simple to make it clear that you're a Jew. But then I realize that if I had a symbol like that on me at all times, I'd feel like I was making a bad name for all Jews anytime I was accidentally rude on the subway, etc. But I don't think that going to parties is a problem. I hear it's okay for Jews to have fun. ;] Yes, many frum Jews have a huge problem with mixed dancing (not me!), but that's not something you should ne worried about in terms of wearing a kippah while doing it. Going to a party in and of itself is not a chillul hashem. A chillul hashem would be if you actually did something shameful, but that could happen anywhere, be it a party or the workplace. I feel like you should be more concerned with how you treat people and act, rather than what activities you partake in.

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