azathotha (azathotha) wrote in [info]hbp_wtf,
@ 2005-12-16 11:19:00
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A question about book seven
I have a question for my fellows in being-disappointed-by-HBP.

What, if anything, could JKR do in book seven to redeem herself?

I think the ships are in a rather insoluble situation. Even if Harry does get with Luna in book 7, the HG in six will still be just baad. But I'm hoping Snape will be proved to have not been evil all along. Because if he was, I may well chuck the books in the fire.

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[info]atalantapendrag
2005-12-15 10:52 pm UTC (link)
But I'm hoping Snape will be proved to have not been evil all along. Because if he was, I may well chuck the books in the fire.


Word.

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azathotha
2005-12-15 11:03 pm UTC (link)
Fortunately for us, JKR seems to be a lot better at sudden plot twists than she is at other things, including certain so-called love scenes.

If Sirius can be the good guy in PoA (well, technically), there's still hope for Snape.

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[info]randomneses
2005-12-16 07:12 am UTC (link)
I second that "word"

I personally think Snape loved Lily...anyone else around here agree?

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[info]venus_ice
2005-12-15 11:19 pm UTC (link)
Well, since it's painfully obvious she took a lot of book 6 from fandom I doubt I can take her seriously at all any longer.

A few things would make book 7 a little easier to read though.
- I could do with an explanation for everyone's douchery in book 6. One that isn't "lolz hormones!"
- A good explanation for Voldemort's vacation in book 6 should be in order as well.
- Snape had better be at least a little bit evil and not in love with Lily!! I'll kill someone if that is true.
- Something--ANYTHING about Sirius would be good.
- There's something funny about Remus. For a Marauder he isn't close to Harry at all! I want that resolved.
But that's just me. XD

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azathotha
2005-12-15 11:23 pm UTC (link)
I could do with an explanation for everyone's douchery in book 6. One that isn't "lolz hormones!"

Personally, I don't think anything could explain the horror that is H/G, except maaybe love potions, but I'm a bit suspicious about them. And Hermione/McClaggen? WTF?

A good explanation for Voldemort's vacation in book 6 should be in order as well.

The plot didn't require him, so he went off to sit on his hands and read the evil overlord list. :) Seriously, where was he? He didn't even break his minions out of Azkaban.

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[info]venus_ice
2005-12-15 11:29 pm UTC (link)
And Hermione/McClaggen? WTF?
And the mention of Hermione & Viktor deserves a great big WTF too. I like that ship but I'm 100% sure she didn't like him that way AT ALL. Making out my ass. Pssshhhaw!

Yeah. The HP world works in convenience. When you're needed you're #1 and when you're not you sit down and wait in the corner for your next plot point. *snort*

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azathotha
2005-12-15 11:47 pm UTC (link)
Making out my ass.

Well, we only have Ginny's word for it, and we know what she's like.

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[info]randomneses
2005-12-16 07:14 am UTC (link)
- Snape had better be at least a little bit evil and not in love with Lily!! I'll kill someone if that is true.

*GASP* I never thought I would disagree with anything you've said but...well this is a first. I personally think Snape having been in love with Lily would explain A LOT. I would love to find that out...but I hope JKR won't make it disgustingly cheesy. *gag* I also think Snape is good...well...an ass, but on the good side. :/ Oh well, to each her own.

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[info]firebird5
2005-12-18 02:23 am UTC (link)
Well, I'm assuming you're not too fond of Ginny... Do you really want Snape to have been all gaga over Lily, who JKR has repeatedly compared with Ginny? If we get to see what Lily was like, I doubt we're going to like it.

Snape/Lily is something I dread, and hope never happens, even more than more H/G scenes. Ew. I don't know. Personally, for me, that wouldn't be redemption at all: I do think he's good, and that he has intense affection (that he obviously doesn't show) towards both Dumbledore and Draco. Maybe it's just because I don't like Lily, but I can't imagine it: "Oh, I was in love with dear perfect Lily all this time! Lily just makes everyone fall in love with her and thus redeem themselves!"

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[info]randomneses
2005-12-18 08:45 am UTC (link)
Well, I'm assuming you're not too fond of Ginny... Do you really want Snape to have been all gaga over Lily, who JKR has repeatedly compared with Ginny?
Well JKR also said that Ginny was compassionate, which is utter rubbish, so I tend not take JKR's comparisons seriously (besides their physical characteristics). I actually like Lily's character. :\


Snape/Lily is something I dread, and hope never happens, even more than more H/G scenes.

Oy, seriously?

Its not just a matter of him going "Oh, I love Lily...but I'm on Voldemort's side! Teh angst!". If it were to be that way it would total water down Snape's character. If it were to be canon, I hope JKR doesn't write it this way.

Harry finding our that his mother actually may have been friendly to the person he hates almost, if not as much as Voldemort, would be rather shocking for him.

If Snape did love Lily, then when he told Voldemort the prophecy, it is technically his fault that Lily was killed...which really sucks.

I respect you not liking the idea, but I do so...yes.

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[info]firebird5
2005-12-18 05:42 pm UTC (link)
I respect you not liking the idea, but I do so...yes.

Ditto. :)

I suppose it's a subjective thing. I've never really liked Lily, and I'm wondering how the hell JKR will portray her so I can like her. Right now Harry sees her as a goddess figure who can do no wrong -- and if he's validated... and we are told she actually is teh perfect mother goddess thing, well, that's another character ruined. Le sigh.

I'm hoping James/Lily and how they got together will be explained more properly after the OotP memory than just "he got his head deflated, she realised she loved him, blah blah". If that's the case, you wonder what was the point of that Pensieve scene.

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[info]randomneses
2005-12-18 07:37 pm UTC (link)
Well I don't have a problem with Lily but I'm betting we find out more about her. Actually, Her liking Snape (platonically) would actually taint his image of Lily by even associating with him. Eh, I dunno. The theory has a lot of merit (and JKR always avoiding the question...) in my opinion but we'll need more hints from JKR or just wait til book 7. :)

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[info]anime_babble
2005-12-15 11:21 pm UTC (link)
Chalk me up as someone who doesnt think she CAN do anything now.

The problem with Half Blood Prince isn't so much the ships (though they were very very poorly written) as it is due to JKR's concepts of morality as presented in the novel.

After being told Voldemort is evil, because he is evil and Harry is good because he is good, I fail to see how the final battle could be that ground breaking.

I will be happy to be proven wrong.

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azathotha
2005-12-15 11:26 pm UTC (link)
Chalk me up as someone who doesnt think she CAN do anything now.

Sigh... that's my secret fear. You're totally right about Voldemort, it was like she said he was born evil, which is ridiculously hypocritical considering the whole choices theme.

Harry killing Voldemort, or Harry sacrificing his life to kill Voldemort, do not seem like groundbreaking endings to me. This isn't that stupid bit on Dragonball Z where Goku has to die (oh the drama!) to kill his older brother.

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[info]pepperjackcandy
2005-12-16 01:15 am UTC (link)
After being told Voldemort is evil, because he is evil and Harry is good because he is good, I fail to see how the final battle could be that ground breaking.

My guess is that Harry is one of the Horcruces. This makes sense (well, when I say "sense," . . .) out of the whole "Power that Voldie Knows Not" and "we're shaped by the choices we make" stuff.

Because even though Harry had Harry's soul (yes, I believe that Voldie killed Harry, then Inferius-ed him, then Horcrux-ed him) at the time, rather than Voldie's, Harry still has Harry's memories of James and Lily's love, and Harry chose to be a nice kid, rather than a bully like the Dursleys, even when the Hat told him that he could have power if he went to Slytherin.

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azathotha
2005-12-16 01:28 am UTC (link)
You think Harry is an Inferius?

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[info]pepperjackcandy
2005-12-16 02:05 am UTC (link)
I think he's, in a weird, contrived way, Voldie's child/reincarnation.

That's why Voldie wanted to convert, rather than kill, Harry in PS/SS. I think he had a "Son, one day all of this will be yours" fantasy about Harry.

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azathotha
2005-12-16 03:19 am UTC (link)
It would be kind of cool if he was an Inferius, though. The Boy Who Lived was dead the whole time! Now there's a twist in the tale.

But I definitely agree with this:

I think he had a "Son, one day all of this will be yours" fantasy about Harry.

If Harry's really a Horcrux, he is sort of Voldemort's son. It's strange how the not many people think of that. I mean, if he's a Horcrux, he wants to keep the kid alive, right?

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[info]venus_ice
2005-12-16 01:35 am UTC (link)
You have something there with the choices bit. Maybe Harry's soul was split too. Hmmmm.

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[info]gilly_halliwell
2005-12-16 06:10 am UTC (link)
Word to everything!

Especially, since the woman is writing a book for kids... she can't be careless as to how the books portray the morals, however she may say otherwise, is cheap and is irresponsible.

But, I too, would be happy if we're enjoyably surprised.

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[info]avidbeader
2005-12-16 12:36 am UTC (link)
Wow. You know, I'm really not quite sure whether she will be able to redeem herself. But what I'd like to see:

- acknowledgement that the events in book 5 actually had a lasting impact on the characters.

- the Ron/Hermione relationship gets about as much depth as the H/G one, which would prove that romance was a secondary thing all along and not a major plot point.

- Ron dies. Or perhaps Hermione, though I don't want that. If this all-encompassing battle between good and evil is going to mean something, then one of the trio has got to die. So far all the deaths have either been expected (Harry's mentors in DD and Sirius) or minor characters. But I think Harry dying in some grand sacrifice is too pat.

- At this point, Snape had damn well better have been on the side of the angels.

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azathotha
2005-12-16 01:28 am UTC (link)
acknowledgement that the events in book 5 actually had a lasting impact on the characters

I know! That really gets to me. What about the Bulletin Board scene, huh? Did Harry forget that happened or something?

one of the trio has got to die

My pick is Ron because JKR does tend to err towards the obvious in these matters, and the melodramatic best friend death is more obvious than Hermione dying, somehow.

At this point, Snape had damn well better have been on the side of the angels.

I concur.

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[info]formethistime
2005-12-16 01:51 am UTC (link)
I would like to see all the "douchness" that was referred to in previous comments thoroughly explained. I'm hoping that Snape turns out to be decent and that he had to kill Dumbledore because of an Unbreakable Vow he took with the headmaster.

I'm still hoping for the REAL Half Blood Prince for Christmas and this was all a bad joke, but yeah. I don't think so.

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[info]gilly_halliwell
2005-12-16 06:06 am UTC (link)
I'll go down as one of the ones who thinks she can't do anything.

I mean... what is she possibly to do!?
The only somehow reasonable thing I can think of is saying the book was a big joke...

The damage was irreparable. There's no possible way to go back to what it used to be... HBP was jumping the shark for HP.

What may possibly make me want to read the book, though, might be;

-Either Hermione comes back to life (aka act some sense into Harry; kick Ron's ass for believing that swallowing Lavender's tongue made some sense) and gets her values back; or dies decently and appropriately in chapter one. Out of respect, so she won't go through what happened in HBP again.

-Draco is somewhat... not redeemed, but understood. His motives are accepted and someway along the book, he is accepted by Harry and co.

-Ginny dies. Bad, horrible dead caused by stubborness and no one griefs her cause they're busy.

-Tonks comes back.

-Luna, Neville and the DA too.

As you can see... the things I see as possibly repairing, convey my thought that the only way for book 7 to be decent would be if book 6 hadn't happened.

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azathotha
2005-12-16 08:21 am UTC (link)
Ginny dies. Bad, horrible dead caused by stubborness and no one griefs her cause they're busy

Well, it would certainly improve the book to have Ginny the walking-plot device out of the way early on. Maybe the Death Eaters could invade Bill and Fleur's wedding. That would be a shock to the OBHWFers hoping to see Harry pining over Ginny in her bridesmaid's gown.

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[info]gilly_halliwell
2005-12-16 08:47 am UTC (link)
Imagine that!
I'd read the book just to read her death in chapter one!

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[info]neytaritook
2005-12-16 09:48 am UTC (link)
I think we're f*cked (can't remember the cussing rulls X-D), book six all but ruined the series (I can still read and enjoy the first five. Maybe that's cause I only sped-read six though...The poison hasn't fully infected my systerm), and book seven has a good chance of being terrible. All she can do is apologise and rewrite book six. Like that's gonna happen *sigh*

But these things could make book seven a decent read for me:

1: Snape must be redeemed. Evil!Snape is way too obvious. So obvious that I can't believe she would even play with the idea.

2: No more "romance." If book six is an example of how Jo thinks love stories should be I don't want to see anyone pair up, not even my ship of choice. FanFic writers are evidently much better at writing HP romance than Jo is.

3: I'd like RAB to be someone we know about, but not someone obvious. I'll somehow survive (;-)) if it's Sirius' brother, but my personal oppinion is that is the obvious choice. I "figured it out" immediatly after reading it and I'd like to think she's smarter than that.

4: The theme of choices being what make us who we are needs to be reinstated and championed.

5: I like the Horcrux theory (see above posts by Pepperjackcandy)

6: I want Harry and Remus to magically remember how much they miss Sirius!

7: I want Hermione back!

8: I want Ginny gone!

Plus a few favors:
-The trio and Remus Lupin must live ;-)

-There must be many Marauder flashbacks would give me joy and help me forgive her. Unless they suck....But yeah. More Sirius ;-)

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[info]sunnysgal
2005-12-17 08:26 pm UTC (link)
I agree with absolutely everything that you and the OP said. Like you I especially hope that JKR does not do the obvious (making Snape really evil, RAB being Regulus, etc.)

And yeah, I don't think that there's much that she can do to make us forget about HBP. Unfortunately, it won't just go away when book 7 is published.

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[info]neytaritook
2005-12-17 11:21 pm UTC (link)
"Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" time! Wouldn't it be awesome to have HBP erased from our memories?

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[info]firebird5
2005-12-18 02:22 am UTC (link)
What, if anything, could JKR do in book seven to redeem herself?

I'm one of the few people who think she can and will redeem her writing in Book 7. It's been brewing in my head for a while, and well, it turned into an essay, on the Point of HBP. Give it a read? :D

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