Mz. Tom Foolery ([info]theamaranth) wrote in [info]crossdressing,
@ 2005-11-18 14:12:00
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Maybe You Can Help
One of the women I know via TechnoDyke.com's message board, and who also happens to be in transition, got the following email regarding her GaydarGirls.com (GDG) account:

support@gaydargirls.com
Hi,
Thank you for your message.

I am sorry but we have had to remove your profile as you seem to be a male (pre-op) user. GaydarGirls is strictly for female users only I am afraid. If you wish, you can create a profile in GaydarGuys instead.

Regards,
Ayumi

How insulting is THAT crap?! Just because she's pre-op, she's getting banned and was recommended a site for men?! She's had a paid account for TWO YEARS at that site, and there is really NO CALL for it. What is SO inappropriate about someone who identifies as female posting on a lesbian- and female-oriented site? Even per their own terms of use which they claim is the reason for her being booted off of the site:

6.2.1 remove any Member profile (including photographs) or other material that, in Our sole discretion may be inappropriate or We suspect to be illegal, subject Us to liability or which may violate these Membership Terms and Conditions or where required to do so by law

One of the other members of TD sent a LONG, nasty email to GDG, and excerpted here:

Unfortunately I have heard that a very valued and respected member of our community, xxxxx xxxxxxxxx, had a membership with your site for at least 2 years, which was suddenly cancelled without warning. Upon asking as to why her membership was cancelled, she was informed that she was a man because she had not had sexual-reassignment surgery and therefore could not be allowed to participate in GaydarGirls.

I assume from the name "Ayumi" you are Asian (although I have no proof for this, you could be anything). How would you like it if i excluded you from a site I was running simply on the association of your name with being Asian? Maybe I don't like Asians. Maybe I assume Asians can't be "proper" lesbians due to "Asian" culture and background. Or maybe I haven't met any Asian lesbians. Maybe I just told you to "go join an straight Asian site instead". That would be assumptious, racist, and wrong. Now replace asian with "transsexual".

I must say I find it sexist, transphobic, hurtful and short-sighted that you are purposefully excluding someone from your site whose identity you do not understand or agree with from a personal point of view. I find it unusual that you claim to possess the knowledge to diagnose someone's gender (has a penis=man, has a vagina=woman)...you deem yourself capable to answer questions medical experts, philosophers, sexologists, counsellors and gender specialists have been asking for over 200 years or so. And many experts of the field have come to conclusion over the years that gender and genitalia are two completely different things that do not have to match. Meaning that someone who has a penis and testicles may not necessarily be a man, live like a man, feel like a man, act like a man, have relationships as a man, or see themselves as a man. And vice versa. And the fact that you unthinkingly tell someone who is not your kind of lesbian she should go join a gay man's website is nothing short of ludicrious. If it weren't so...viciously stupid, I would laugh.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg on what she wrote. Now, for those of you who are either deal with transgender issues personally or are close to someone who does deal with them, I urge you to email support@gaydargirls.com and let them know what you think of their philosophy on this issue! I promise you that if enough of us let them know how we feel about this through our emails, they maybe will think a bit and hopefully EDUCATE themselves, as well as change their policy on transwomen.

Katie


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[info]leujin
2005-11-18 07:30 pm UTC (link)
Holy hell... That's really insensetive and short sited. I mean... damn, yeah, basically everything I have to say about it is covered in that letter! I guess it kind of boggles me that even in an "alternative lifestyle" sort of community like that, they still have hangups about certain things. Though probably the worst part was suggesting she go join GaydarGuys, because... you know, clearly since she's "really a man" and lives like a female, that must mean that she's really just a gay man. Yeah, that totally makes lots of sense.

Idiots.

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[info]theamaranth
2005-11-18 07:42 pm UTC (link)
send your own letter! i want to bombard them with letters to let them know how moronic their discrimination and biases are and how dykes shouldn't tolerate it.

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[info]artsygirlstace
2005-11-18 08:35 pm UTC (link)
Yah, that's really dumb.

I think they just need some education on the topic really.

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[info]theamaranth
2005-11-18 10:12 pm UTC (link)
write them and educate them! just a quick little note to say you don't agree would help!

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lowlavalentine
2005-11-19 01:32 am UTC (link)
Here's a copy of the email I sent them:

I am a mtf transgendered person (I also happen to be an MD) who heard about your recent banning of a mtf pre-op transsexual from your community because you considered her a "man". I would encourage you to reconsider your decision. I know the waters get muddy when it comes to trying to classify transgendered individuals. Having said that I think that there is broad acceptance that gender identity in mtf transsexuals is clearly female. I understand that the banned individual was a pre-op ts - just think about that for a moment. Does that mean before she undergoes surgery that she's a man and thus unacceptable for membership, and that magically a couple of hours later after the surgeon does her thing she's suddenly a woman and thus acceptable to your group? You can see how ludicrous that way of thinking is - basically what has happened in the operating room is just to rearrange the anatomy to suit the female gender that already exists.

So besides breaking the poor girl's heart, you have made a decision that is not backed by currently accepted medical doctrine. If she'll have you, I'd advise you to invite her back to the fold.

Thanks for your consideration,
Lowla Valentine

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Fucking Zealots!
[info]shelleybear
2005-11-20 04:06 am UTC (link)
There is nothing worse then a convert to any idea, physical state or religion.
Look, I'm relatively new to cross-dressing and have little or no interest in gender reassignment at this time. HOWEVER this is just stupid and rude!
As has been pointed out elsewhere, fifteen minutes under a surgeons knife should not make a damned bit of difference to what is in a soul.

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[info]hushed_thoughts
2005-11-20 08:14 pm UTC (link)
I suppose I'm odd man out, as it were.

If I were seeking a female partner on a website, and found out that the person I'd shown interest in was actually a male, I imagine I'd be rather ticked off.

Did the person who was banned advertise in their profile that they were a pre-op? Were they upfront with people? If not, then I fully support the website's decision.

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[info]woofiegrrl
2005-11-20 09:15 pm UTC (link)
Here's what I sent them:
Hello,

I wanted to express my dismay at the recent administrative choice made by GaydarGirls.com to remove a longstanding member of the community based on the fact that she is transgendered. To be honest, I am appalled at your willingness to practice discrimination against a member of a group marginalized by society - so much for minorities supporting each other. I'll explain that a little better with the following example:

I was recently hired by RSVP Vacations as an interpreter for one of their cruises. On day two of the trip, the RSVP employee who had hired me (along with another lesbian and a gay man) pulled the three of us aside and said he was terribly sorry but he had to ask the two female interpreters if we really were lesbians. It seems there was some complaint among the passengers because we looked like we might be straight. The other interpreter was able to establish herself as a dyke, but apparently rumors continued about me for the entire week. Finally, on the next-to-last night, I was confronted directly by a passenger who demanded to know if I was lesbian. When I said yes, he demanded to know if I had a girlfriend. When I said yes and that we'd been together for seven years, he demanded to know if I had a picture of her! I was so incensed by this treatment that I went to the ship's Internet cafe and printed out a picture of my partner and myself with a well-known gay celebrity. That was apparently good enough for this individual, but I later heard that the male interpreter had been asked repeatedly if I was straight...because I am femme and have long hair.

The idea that a group of gay men (RSVP cruises are about 90% male) can discriminate against a lesbian is shocking, I'm sure you'll agree. And so it is equally astonishing that a group of lesbians can discriminate against a transgender woman. Whether or not she is lesbian (that is, sleeps with women) is irrelevant - you were attacking her based on her sexual characteristics and NOT her sexual orientation. Telling a transwoman that she should join a site intended for gay men is ridiculous, and I condemn you for such practices.

Sincerely,
([info]woofiegrrl)

I'll also be posting about this in Cyber Dyke Blog, hopefully that will get a few more eyeballs on it.

(Reply to this)

Reversed decision
lowlavalentine
2005-11-21 12:19 am UTC (link)
guess what - they reversed their decision! Here's the reply I got today:

Hi Lowla

Thank you for your email.

The suspension of the person in question was due to an administrative error, for which we apologise profusely. The profile has been reinstated and we have informed the user accordingly.

Thank you again for your comments, and please accept our apologies for any offence caused by this unintentional and regrettable mistake.

Please advise if I can be of any further assistance.

Kind regards



Katy

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Re: Reversed decision
[info]woofiegrrl
2005-11-21 03:23 pm UTC (link)
Yep, that's the exact same response I got - except mine was from Andre!

"Administrative error," huh? Wonder what THAT means.

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Re: Reversed decision
[info]kethet
2005-11-22 11:04 pm UTC (link)
If caused by a human, generally Administrative Error is 'We fucked up, and bigtime.'

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Re: Reversed decision
[info]morbioid
2005-11-24 11:48 am UTC (link)
Good thing I read this page before I e-mailed them. :-)

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[info]morbioid
2005-11-24 11:48 am UTC (link)
It’s transphobic and misandrist.

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