Amanda the Great, Queen of Rambling ([info]bethama) wrote in [info]correctjapanese,
@ 2005-12-14 15:26:00
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Kanji question (sort of)
(Not exactly a translation question, so please let delete this post if you find it inappropriate...)


犭: a radical for animals - particularly mammals, I think.
+
虫: a kanji meaning "bug."
=
独: the character for "alone."

...my teacher couldn't explain, either. It's actually been bugging me for a while now (no pun intended). Does anyone know the story behind this one? (A lot of kanji don't seem to make sense at first, or at all, but the fact that this one includes two radicals that indicate types of animals, and translate to a fairly abstract concept, has piqued my interest.)

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[info]oakenax
2005-12-13 11:13 pm UTC (link)
Often the original meanings behind characters have been lost in history.

I suspect that the character might have had a different meaning in archaic times, or that it simply was made up of a classification radical and a phonetic radical -- thus really having no semantic meaning what so ever.

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[info]aesthete_ai
2005-12-14 12:08 am UTC (link)
I know that now, cicada noise has the association of tranquility and peacefulness, so that might be the reason. Although I know this wasn't it's classical association, it might make sense if it's a more recent kanji. It's classical meaning was heavily linked with buddhist theory, and was often used to represent change and as such a negative view of impermanence, (and therefore loneliness), so this could be the reason for the use of bug, but I don't believe it myself.

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[info]mattholland
2005-12-14 12:10 am UTC (link)
http://www.harmful.org/homedespot/newtdr/NEWtdrARCHIVE/JAPANESE/kanjibeefs2.htm

your question reminded me of this page

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[info]oakenax
2005-12-14 10:42 am UTC (link)
Whoever wrote that page is a moron, and likely lacks any real scholarship or appreciation of Classical history.

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[info]tithonus
2005-12-14 01:37 pm UTC (link)
rotfl. what it is to have no sense of humour.

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[info]mattholland
2005-12-14 04:21 pm UTC (link)
you beat me to it

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[info]tithonus
2005-12-14 11:30 pm UTC (link)
sorry. :-)

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[info]oakenax
2005-12-14 05:21 pm UTC (link)
I don't appreciate the author mocking a writing system that has been in use for thousands of years.

It propels the myth that non-Asians can't learn characters, as well as giving a wrong image to people unseasoned in learning characters.

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[info]tithonus
2005-12-14 11:29 pm UTC (link)
don't worry, your pompous lack of humour was already amply apparent without that addition.

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[info]oakenax
2005-12-14 11:49 pm UTC (link)
It is hardly pompous to discourage ignorance.

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[info]bethama
2005-12-15 01:38 am UTC (link)
Hey all!! Wow, one of my entries spurred drama! I'm so honored.

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[info]tithonus
2005-12-15 02:08 pm UTC (link)
this is drama?? oh well. :-)

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[info]bethama
2005-12-16 03:18 am UTC (link)
I lead a boring life. I take what I can get.

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[info]tithonus
2005-12-15 02:07 pm UTC (link)
you could probably turn this into a standup act, if you could once stop taking yourself so seriously. :-)

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[info]mizbrified_box
2005-12-15 04:59 am UTC (link)
Holy cow, I actually wrote down the one about 'western' and 'sheep' a couple of months ago xD Okey not so amazing, but I thought exactly that. Just less the cows.

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[info]tithonus
2005-12-14 01:44 am UTC (link)
a rough translation from my dictionary of kanji origins:
--
the original kanji was made from 獨. the right hand part of that (蜀 acts phonetically gives "shoku" as a reading. that right hand side also has a "toku" reading from * (computer won't display it. it means an arrow quiver). the right hand side is a picture of a male beast, with the insect part representing its penis. animals often become separated from their packs, thus the combined kanji which means "one animal" came to be used with people to mean "alone".
--
obviously the right hand side was later simplified to show just the insect. most kanji dictionaries will show the old character when you look up the new one.

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[info]bethama
2005-12-14 02:31 am UTC (link)
I love you! Thank you so much for the explanation; I KNEW there had to be a reason!

What's your dictionary called, by the way? (If it's in Japanese, I should be able to get it since I'm in Japan right now...)

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[info]tithonus
2005-12-14 03:59 am UTC (link)
常用字解 by 白川静 (458212805x)

there's also 0804820384 which is in english, but not nearly as good: its full of stupid mnemonics and some pretty far out explanations.

the first one seems more trustworthy, but either should be taken with a pinch of salt given that this sort of thing is basically archeology and so at least eight parts guesswork. informed guesswork, but guesswork nonetheless.

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[info]bethama
2005-12-15 01:42 am UTC (link)
<3! I'm so looking for that this weekend. (This is totally an excuse to go to the Kinokuniya by Shinjuku station again.)

(Nice icon, by the way. That you?)

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[info]tithonus
2005-12-15 02:09 pm UTC (link)
thankee. it is/was. it's from about three years ago. my current job doesn't allow the blue hair, but i've handed in my notice, so maybe i'll return to my natural colours in april. :-)

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[info]bethama
2005-12-16 03:21 am UTC (link)
Go for it! Normal hair is booooring. *stares disdainfully in the mirror and debates bleaching in stripes again*

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[info]tithonus
2005-12-16 04:27 am UTC (link)
i regard blue as my natural colour. it's not a matter of boring or not, just what suits me. i had blue hair for about six and half years before this job. :-)

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[info]bethama
2005-12-16 04:31 am UTC (link)
...um. In that case... um.

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