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Be ye converted; become wise.
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| A clarification |
[12 Oct 2008|11:22pm] |
i_am_lane has made a typically helpful post explaining the problems (perhaps more appropriately, limitations) of what he describes as a "scientific world view".
( more )
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22 Spoketh| Convert
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| GUTS! |
[11 Oct 2008|07:36pm] |
Oklahoma is a very odd place. Not only do we have Oral Roberts University, which is a non stop lulz fest (Hear Oral Roberts talk about inappropriate sex acts HERE)
But we also have a wonderfull little attraction called Guts Church. It was originally founded as a tear-the-phonebook-in-half for Jesus and blow-up-hot-water-bottles for the Lord kinda place, but 9 years ago they branched out into ministering via Halloween Haunted house. Here is a nice video from the local news about it. (The comments on that page are very interesting...) Here's the Tulsa University Newspaper had a nice review of the 2003 "Nightmare"
( Freind Page Freindly! ) </div>
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7 Spoketh| Convert
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| You're wrong. |
[11 Oct 2008|07:37pm] |
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Surfer Girl by Home Grown |
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"You're wrong about virtues of Christianity
And you're wrong if you agree with Sean Hannity
If you think that pride is about nationality, you're wrong
You're wrong when you imprison people turning tricks
And you're wrong about trickle down economics
If you think that punk rock doesn't mix with politics, you're wrong
You're wrong for hating queers and eating steers
If you kill for the thrill of the hunt
You're wrong 'bout wearing fur and not hating Ann Coulter
Cause she's a cunted cunt
You're wrong if you celebrate Columbus Day
And You're wrong if you think there will be a Judgement Day
If you're a charter member of the NRA, you're wrong
You're wrong if you support capital punishment
And you're wrong if you don't question your government
If you think her reproductive rights are inconsequent, you're wrong
You're wrong fighting Jihad, your blind faith in God
Your religions are all flawed,
You're wrong about drug use, when its not abuse
I hope you never reproduce
You're getting high on the downlow
A victim of Cointelpro
You're wrong and will probably never know"
You're wrong by NOFX
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239 Spoketh| Convert
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| Why I am not a Christian |
[11 Oct 2008|03:49pm] |
Dear Christians,
According to ![[info]](http://p-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif) pastorlenny "All Christian faith is predicated upon an afterlife. Think Christ."
EDIT and CORRECTION: pastorlenny said "All Christian faith is predicated upon an absolute assurance of an afterlife. Think Christ.
This opened my eyes some, so to begin, thanks Lenny. I had never quite considered it like that before.
To continue:
I recognized now why I am not a Christian. Many people have had many reasons before me (didn't B.Russell have an entire book named that?) and many will have reasons after me, but I'm self-centered, so here I am, talking about me.
For me, I cannot accept an afterlife, and so I cannot accept Christ. I can accept Jesus, the human male who went around and was kind and loving to people that weren't exactly respected on the social ladder (prostitutes and tax collectors come to mind). This Jesus fellow, he sounds like a good fellow to follow. I might just have followed him, had I lived when he lived. But Jesus is dead. Christians may say Christ is not dead, but this is returning to the fundamental problem.
I cannot accept an afterlife. I also recognize that I am not in a position to disprove an afterlife--I must be agnostic about it. If I had to speculate, I would say there is nothing after the decay of the brain. No transmigration of soul (since a soul is speculative too), no re-incarnation, none of it. They are nice ideas, for sure, and sometimes they are immensely re-assuring. I have sometimes fallen for the trap of a pleasant idea just because it was pleasant. Right now is not one of those times.
So, Christians, convert_me. I'm unable to make the first step towards Christian faith since I cannot accept an afterlife.
Does that mean I'm going to burn for all eternity?
EDIT: My thoughts in song form:
Long you live and high you fly
And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry
And all you touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be
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161 Spoketh| Convert
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| Concerning the historical veracity of the Bible |
[09 Oct 2008|05:38pm] |
When one undertakes a critical assessment of history, a general position of skepticism is, of course, warranted. One thing pseudo-skeptics don't realize, however, is that skepticism does not warrant wholesale rejection of any given source. There is, obviously, a happy medium between "The Bible is false fairy-tales and nonsense!" and "The Bible is absolutely, 100 percent true!"
( Cut. )
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15 Spoketh| Convert
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| Discordia and Christianity, as heard on teh intertubes |
[08 Oct 2008|04:17pm] |
This was compiled by Pope LMNO, Wrought Iron Instigator, First Church of Last Exit Before Toll
Summary: Part I
A new user to the PD.com forums by the name of Paiyaku asks: I don't know if this has either been asked before or never asked before, but I'll ask anyways.
Although Discordia is a chaos-based religion. It does have a deity that it's followers hail to and other religious practices. Is it possible for a Christian to enjoy being a Discordian, but not hail to Eris(sorry if mispelled) I don't want to start any rants, debates, or arguements over christianity. I know the majority of people here are pretty random and closer-minded to the god of madness on Oblivion, Sheogorath. I am also like this though. I enjoy random chaos, confusing people and causing complete madness. It's fun, at church to make teens stop putting their backpacks in the hallway all over the floor, I fill their bags with leaves and dirt, sometimes tissues or whatever i can think of.
Anyways, back on topic. Is it possible to be dominantly christian, but still take part of Discordia? No goddess worship. If it's possible to place God instead of Eris or something. If anyone on here can help me out, that would be great.
I have asked this before in the past and got nothing useful. I hope someone can shed some light for me.
Consult your pineal gland.
( Read more... )
After part II, I'll tell the fable about the Discordian, 2 Priests, 2 Rabbi's, 2 Muslims, 1 Buddhist, 2 Scientologists (yes, they brought some weird looking machinery), 1 lonely and emo-looking atheist, a southern baptist, 1 Hindu, and 10 various pagans trapped in a room together. Which happened this Monday.
Yes there was a fist fight. Yes, the Discordian restored "order" by chastising the fighters like little children.
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9 Spoketh| Convert
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| Historical value of religion? |
[08 Oct 2008|02:09pm] |
I recently re-found this video, and while it doesn't discuss religion, per se, there is a message I think that may apply.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6731102750245618218
The video is primarily about history and a big part of the speakers point is: When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.
My suspicion is that is what has happened with many religions. The legend became fact, and everybody just sorta went with the legend.
Reflections?
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99 Spoketh| Convert
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| The Purpose of Miracles |
[08 Oct 2008|09:18am] |
allmhuran challenged me to properly defend a claim I've been making about the purpose of miracles. Specifically, he asked me to refute the following claim:
"Miracles are persuasive devices. Stories about them exist for the purpose of converting people to faith or strengthening faith. In this sense, miracles revealed to be trickery are not useful because tricks do not require, nor strengthen, faith. Miracles which are fictitious events are also not useful, because they are only persuasive within the that fiction and have no relation to reality. Therefore demonstrating or arguing that miracles are based on trickery or fiction is worthwhile and desirable because it disrupts an otherwise deceitful persuasive device. Likewise, any miracles which withstand significant scrutiny should be considered more persuasive."
Hopefully I can quickly show you all how the above characterization of miracles is incorrect if we wish to limit ourselves to the miracles allegedly performed by Jesus in the four canonical gospels.
( Miracle Max says, 'Have fun storming the castle!' )
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143 Spoketh| Convert
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| Science In The Bible |
[08 Oct 2008|02:21am] |
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Once again we're back to these crazy fallacies of the Bible. If we are to assume that the Bible was written by God, and God is a perfect being, then he should have known better than to write these errors that have been scientifically proven to be false.
This will only help to prove our case that the Bible is NOT the word of God, and it was written by first century man who didn't have the science and technologies that we have today. Thereby exposing the lies and fallacy of the entire Christian religion.
1. The Bible says the world is flat.
Isaiah 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the [flat] circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.
Ezekiel 7:2 Also, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD unto the land of Israel; An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land [four corners of a flat square].
Daniel 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. [the mountain covered a flat area on the entire earth]
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. [every eye on earth seeing him could only happen on a flat earth]
** The world being flat was generally accepted by scholars until the times of Galileo and Copernicus. And when Christopher Columbus made his world famous voyage around the world to prove it wasn't flat. But how come God didn't know this in the first century??
2. God says insects and birds have four legs.
Leviticus 11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.
Leviticus 11:21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
Leviticus 11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.
** Now God allegedly created these beings, wouldn't he know how many legs they have?? This is just preposterous.
3. God says that rabbits and rodents chew their cud.
Deuteronomy 14:7 Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney [a term for an extinct type of rodent]: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you.
** Science tells us that only animals with compartmentalized stomachs (such as cows) can chew their cud. Cows have four stomachs and rabbits and rodents do not. You would think God would know this since he created these animals.
4. The Bible believes in mythical beings such as giants, dragons, and unicorns.
Deuteronomy 2:10 The Emims dwelt therein in times past, a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims;
Deuteronomy 2:11 Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites called them Emims.
Deuteronomy 2:20 That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;
Deuteronomy 2:21 A people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakims; but the LORD destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead
Deuteronomy 32:33 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.
Deuteronomy 33:17 His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.
** It is a widely held believe that none of these mythological, fabled beings exist. Science has no proof of their existence and they are thought of by the majority as superstition.
Other religious first century beliefs included the belief that the sun revolved around the earth, that the mentally ill and epileptic were possessed by Satan, and that God killed everyone in the great flood except for those on Noah's Ark. Nevermind that the Grand Canyon is actually older than the time of the flood and has no evidence of ever having held flood water. The first century people couldn't have possibly known of its existence being on another continent, thereby they made up this great flood story.
The Vatican themselves hold councils when science proves a new theory and then they have to come up with a way that science fits in with the theories of The Bible. I can only imagine these meetings are like "oh shit, what do we do now?? They're onto us!" It has only been within the last 20 years that they have forgiven poor Galileo for not committing heresy and for actually being right about the earth revolving around the sun.
More Bible fallacies and falsehoods. When will people realize that the Bible is full of contradiction and just plain untruths. There is no way that a perfect God could have written such inaccurate information. It HAD to have been written by man, thereby throwing out the entire core of the Christian religion.
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90 Spoketh| Convert
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| ACLU Sues School District For Punishing Kindergarten Student Because of Family's Religious Beliefs |
[07 Oct 2008|05:07pm] |
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What do you guys think? From a religious and moral standpoint (which are two different things)
HOUSTON, TX – The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Texas and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) today sued to stop the Needville Independent School District (NISD) from punishing a five-year-old American Indian kindergarten student for practicing and expressing his family’s religious beliefs and heritage.
School officials have forced Adriel Arocha into isolated In-School Suspension because he and his family refuse to abide by a District mandate that he shove his long hair, part of his American Indian religious and cultural heritage, down the back of his shirt every day – a requirement that would cause Adriel shame, embarrassment and physical discomfort. After being granted a religious belief exemption from the district’s dress code that requires boys to have short hair, Adriel’s parents were informed he could keep his long hair only if he keeps it in a single, thick braid shoved down the back of his shirt at all times.
“Adriel Arocha’s parents have raised him to practice and be proud of his religion and culture as an American Indian, which includes wearing his uncut hair in two long braids,” said Lisa Graybill, Legal Director for the ACLU of Texas. “NISD recognized that Adriel’s religious beliefs exempt him from the dress code requirement that boys have short hair, but the alternate policy they adopted for him is unlawful.” 
rest of story here
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60 Spoketh| Convert
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| But God Is Love! |
[07 Oct 2008|11:44am] |
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If I had a nickel every time I heard that, I would be a contender with Bill Gates for the richest person in America. There are hundreds of acts in the Bible where God has been cruel, unmerciful and downright hateful of others. This is not love, this is a mean and cruel God.
Instead of posting the examples here (because there are literally near 1000!) I will link you to a wonderful site that has already gathered them all. The site is called the Skeptics Annotated Bible, and they went through the King James Bible and found all of the grotesque acts of God. There are 893 that they found!!!
Click here to see repulsive, cruel, and violent acts made by your Loving God taken directly from the Bible.
It's funny you don't need any other texts or books to show that God is NOT just about love. It comes right out of the Bible itself - the word of God. In just a few of those examples, God killed or maimed someone that committed the following "sins". I put the number next to it so you can see what I'm talking about. Those are written by the site owners and then if you click on the passage numbers at the end of the example, you can see exactly where in the Bible it says it.
- God rewards Phinehas for murdering an interracial couple #151
- God killed homosexuals for being gay #372 & #823
- God wanted to kills Moses for not circumsizing his son #24
- God wants to kill children who hit or curse their parents #47 & #108
- God wants you to make sure you are bathed before you go to church or you will die #61
- God approves in animal sacrifice and blood rituals (just read the entire example of Leviticus, the whole thing is about killing animals)
- God kills people who believe in witches, psychics/fortune tellers #115
- God killed all of the Egyptian firstborn babies #157
- God kills rape victims who don't scream loud enough while being raped (unless she's raped in the country where no one can hear her) #197
- God is jealous and will never forgive you for your sins (isn't this contradictory??) #252
And those are just a few examples. There are literally almost 900 examples of cruelty and violence by God in the Bible.
And I cannot post this video enough, it's called "Proving The Bible Is Actually Repulsive".
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208 Spoketh| Convert
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| Religious Experience |
[07 Oct 2008|09:06am] |
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Trapt - Ready When You Are |
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The idea of powerful and moving religious experiences which form the basis for personal belief have come up a lot in recent discussions. I want to try and get some perspective in this area, and so if you've had such an experience, I would very much like to hear about it.
I understand that these events can be very personal, or perhaps even embarrassing to speak about, and to help preserve a comfortable environment I pledge that I will not reply with anything other than requests for clarification if necessary, and I would ask everyone else to do the same.
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18 Spoketh| Convert
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| Theology Question |
[07 Oct 2008|07:27am] |
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Any Christians here know of any Christian-type commentary on Ezra-Nehemiah? I'm very interested in reading any such thing. From my experience as a Baptist, Ezra/Nehemiah was mostly skipped over as largely redundant, and more an intellectual oddity than anything else. Any of the Church Fathers take it up in their commentaries? Help is much appreciated, and rewarded, with my invisible money.
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6 Spoketh| Convert
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| The ground of Biblical authority |
[06 Oct 2008|11:49pm] |
I have a question for those believers who regard the Christian Bible as the unique, inerrant, complete authority on spiritual truth. (For that matter, if we have a Muslim who regards the Qur'an the same way, I'm equally interested.)
Obviously this is a very common belief, but it's very puzzling to me. On what basis have you concluded that the Bible is this extraordinary document?
I'm not really asking about belief in God or Christ: believers say things about that which generally boils down to saying “I have had a compelling, unmistakable experience of the divine,” which I can respect on several levels.
But things people have told me about why they venerate the Bible, on the other hand, are weak tea:
The Bible contains a lot of history we know to be factually true, thus we can trust that it is true. Even though War and Peace is rich in factual history, we don't conclude that Natasha Rostova was a historical person.
Study of the Bible has been so extraordinarily rewarding to me that I know it is a source of truth. Hey, study of the Bible has been rewarding to me. I have no doubt it is rich in truth. But it's a big step from offering some profound truth and being unique, inerrant, and complete in its account of the truth.
The Bible is so surprising that it cannot be the product of human invention; thus it must be divinely inspired. That just seems silly; I can think of some UFO cults who believe much more surprising stuff.
The Bible is so consistent in its content, in spite of having been assembled over centuries, that its authorship must have been guided by God's hand. Surely in this forum I don't need to walk through the reasons why I find this claim unsatisfying.
Can somebody help me out? What am I missing here?
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119 Spoketh| Convert
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| I'll Convert Anyone |
[06 Oct 2008|07:56pm] |
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Come check out my journal and I'll have you questioning your religion! I've made a lot of good points and even Christians have come in and told me I had them questioning their beliefs. I'm all about opening minds and I know what I'm talking about. I'm a former believer who has lost their religion.
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24 Spoketh| Convert
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[06 Oct 2008|04:35pm] |
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1. Intro
Things are getting out of hand in the community. We understand that there has been fault on both sides and it is time to move forward.
2. Background
2.1. This community was created on September 15, 2003, with the intention of becoming a forum in which people right across the spectrum of religious belief could come together to challenge the beliefs of others.
2.2. The community became difficult to moderate - over 1,000 members! - and so demi-mods were appointed.
2.3. The number of theistic posts - especially from 'conventional' Christians, Jews, and Muslims - rapidly dropped over this time. The community has become known as a 'theist trap', where atheists are seen to be unruly and aggressive towards reasoned argument in favour of theism.
2.4. The behaviour of some of the moderation team also came to support the belief that this community was little more than a theist trap.
2.5. The community is quickly descending into an unmanageable troll field. The noise to content ratio is quickly rising and it needs to stop.
3. The Way Forward - Moderation
3.1. We are reducing the moderation team. It's been pointed out that, despite the huge number of demi-mods, no actual moderation takes place. Atheists routinely bash theists with little regard to reason and the huge number of demi-mods is being perceived as a way for people to wash their hands of responsibility. Over the next month, we are going to reduce the number of mods + demi-mods to four (4).
3.2. We are expecting mods and demi-mods to exemplify the behaviour we expect to see from the members. We are organising for members to have a transparent and fair means to hold mods and demi-mods accountable for their actions. This sort of bullying will not be tolerated.
3.3. Due to ongoing complaints about his behaviour - even resulting in members leaving the community - carl_sagan will no longer be a demi-mod.
4. The Way Forward - 'Clone' Accounts
4.1. An account intended to impersonate an identity will now be terminated on sight.
We are sorry that it has come to this.
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92 Spoketh| Convert
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