quakers: Plain dress

za (

zach_alexander) wrote in

quakers,
@ 2005-05-29 12:32:00

Plain dress
What do people think of plain dress? Does anyone here practice it? I am thinking of doing it this summer.

x-posted to lj_peace_churches

(Post a new comment)

	kibbles 2005-05-29 02:04 pm UTC (link)
	I'd like to, but it is expensive. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	zach_alexander 2005-05-29 03:13 pm UTC (link)
	Really? I haven't gotten as far as looking at prices or anything. Do you just mean the cost of the clothes? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

kibbles
2005-05-29 03:19 pm UTC (link)

Yep, any new wardrobe is, really -- but I do go covered now and then...start small.

We're starting to get on our feet financially so that helps, but when I really wanted to start, we were very poor and it was too much at the time. But for what you get (high quality clothing hand made for the most part), it's a bargain.

I think men have it easier than women, the -- oh what was that catalogue, you'll see it mentioned a lot, and I HAVE it, Gohn Brothers, that's it.

I want to go somewhere between plain and simple and modest.

I also wanted to start a community, a swap community for plain and modest dress -- but it seemed really hard to get the ball rolling on that. I had something set up off of LJ for it but getting people involved was hard.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

zach_alexander
2005-05-29 04:08 pm UTC (link)

Yeah, I suppose it must be pretty expensive to switch. I'm a student, and when I'm not moving, my family is, so I've been preoccupied with the "omigosh I could pack all my clothes in just one suitcase!" aspect (:

What do you mean by *between* plain and simple and modest?

I agree, it seems like it is easier for men.

I was thinking about eventually starting a something -- mailing list, tribe.net tribe, LJ comm, communal blog? -- for plain and modest dress. It could be for both discussion and swapping... It could also be more inclusive than the existing Yahoo group, which I am in the process of joining, so that non-Christian Quakers wouldn't be left out. Would you be interested in trying to start something together sometime later this year?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

kibbles
2005-05-29 04:26 pm UTC (link)

Plain is like the Amish/Old Order Mennonites wear. The lack of zippers, the apron dresses, and so on. Plain Dress in capitals, as opposed to dressing simple/plain.

Simple and modest means dressing modestly, but zippers are ok, floral prints are ok, miniskirts, even if grey are NOT ok, and so on. The dress I have on now is simple and modest. Black cotton, long, short sleeves. Not Plain though, you can tell I have breasts and the elbows are showing, and I am barelegged which I think is a no-no as well and I will probably wear sandals. My head is uncovered, too. And I may put on blush and I colored my hair, and I wear a wedding band.

There are some mailing lists, the guy you originally linked to, his wife ran one but we banged heads over something (letting it rest, he reads this sometimes). There is also one for headcovering, a couple of mennonite ones that are thisclose to old order, I know a lot of Christian women mailing lists that are aimed towards plain dressing women and I could ask on one of them...however they aren't Quaker and in fact some of them are rather un-Quakerly in my opinion. But rarely do disagreements come up that I find offensive enough to get concerned about. My only reason for unsubscribing now and then is because of the HUGE volume of email.

I'd be very interested in starting something! I'm also pretty excited because I have inherited a sewing machine, and hope to get the hang of it and at least make my own head coverings.

For me, the headcovering is important, not just for the pure Biblical reasons, but because of the mental space it puts me in, the reminder of what my place is in this world, where I am going, where I want to be.

My thought on a place was if it was more of a forum, you could have one area for discussion (or more) and one for swapping, a mailing list or blog is harder to go over archives I THINK. It was on ezboard, the one I tried to start up.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Plain Dress (Anonymous) 2008-07-17 04:50 pm UTC (link)
	I just came across this thread and wondered how kibbles made out with her Plain Dressing. Anyone know? sandra (http:\\plaindresssubmissive.blogspot.com) (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Plain Dress kibbles 2008-07-17 04:57 pm UTC (link)
	Plainer, more modest, but can't pull it off when wearing scrubs! ;) (Reply to this)(Parent)

	driftingfocus 2008-08-19 01:20 pm UTC (link)
	One way to minimize the cost is to sew it yourself. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	nevermind zach_alexander 2005-05-29 04:13 pm UTC (link)
	Actually I just reread the first essay (Martin's) and I think I know what you mean by "between plain and simple and modest." (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: nevermind kibbles 2005-05-29 04:26 pm UTC (link)
	I was mid-post when you replied... (Reply to this)(Parent)

Re: nevermind

porms
2005-05-30 01:00 am UTC (link)

I agree with everything

kibbles has said. Imagine that. ;)

I think all Christians should try to dress more simply and more modestly and more "earth-friendly." I know Christians who spend hundreds of dollars on single "designer" purses and wear bright neon colors and have purple hair. I used to be one of those people, but lately I've come to understand that appearance does matter, and simplicity in dress is very important to me.

I've not gotten to the point where all of my clothes are simple, but I am definately heading in that direction.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	zach_alexander 2005-05-30 12:42 pm UTC (link)
	I agree, and that's one part of why I am attracted to it -- I think if there were more people (Quakers, whoever) dressing really plainly, more Christians (and others) would realize how wasteful and vain modern American clothing often is. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kerrycufil 2008-07-17 04:53 pm UTC (link)
	" Posted by: Justin December PM Respond ^ People who complain about this piece - do you really think if Huckabee gets the nomination, all his writings are not going to be pored over. (Reply to this)(Parent)

driftingfocus
2008-08-19 01:24 pm UTC (link)

It's funny - I don't dress "plain" in the traditional sense, but I rarely wear anything with any sort of design on it, I wear a lot of brown/gray/blue, and tend to dress rather modestly. I just don't see the purpose in "fashion", and tend to focus on function in my clothes, and not drawing undue attention to myself. However, ironically, in *not* adhering to fashion, I *do* end up drawing attention to myself sometimes. I've had people occasionally ask if I'm conservative (which I am not, very much not), and when I ask why they thought I was, they invariably cite the way I dress as the reason.

Anyway, just my .20 cents. Any yes, I realize this post is 3 years old, but I found it via google/LJ, and wanted to comment, so....yeah. I'm curious to know if what you were discussing re:organizing came to fruition at all?

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	super_weasel 2008-09-05 12:53 am UTC (link)
	What organizing do you mean? –Zach (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	driftingfocus 2008-09-05 01:04 am UTC (link)
	Someone mentioned an online swap-community, etc. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	super_weasel 2008-09-05 01:50 am UTC (link)
	Ah... no, I don't think so, but I wouldn't really know (haven't been P-D for about two years now). (Reply to this)(Parent)

Quaker Plain Dress
(Anonymous)
2005-09-10 07:42 am UTC (link)

For me thee can't recreate the past, the past is that the past though it is nice to plain dress it can be hard to find the clothes and can cost a lot. So for me is to ware black pants , white or dark blue shirts with out a collar and black hat and if cold black coat as plain as I can get and black pull overs.With a hat a Quaker, plane type of hat thay cost a lot so I am looking at buying a black hat plain as I can find, but it does not have old Quaker look . With dressing plain the money comes in to it, like the hat Quaker type cost $140 and the other type cost $45 and much harder wareing so which would you buy? So the way I dress plain is what I can aford. The other way would end up costing thousands hope this helps and thee needs a leading to plain dress, all so plain is more than just clothes it is somthing thee has to find with in thy self . Let me know what thee thinks at quakerplain@yahoo.com.au

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Quaker Plain Dress (Anonymous) 2006-05-13 09:19 pm UTC (link)
	you need to look at your motives!!! you can dress what people can consider to be cool,and be proud.. you can dress Very Plain,and be proud;....... YOU NEED A RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS AND LET HIM CHANGE YOU STOP CHANGING YOURSELF!!!!!!!! ROCK ON FOR JESUS (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	Re: Quaker Plain Dress (Anonymous) 2006-10-29 01:49 pm UTC (link)
	As the Bible teaches we must work out our own salvation; and Christian conduct is something a lot of christians over look. Being a good example for other christians is a responsiblity few christans take on. Dressing modestly for a woman is a part of christian conduct, that has a lot to do with freedom, freedom from worldly pressures. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	fallibledragon 2005-05-29 02:35 pm UTC (link)
	Seems like a good practice to me, even as a non-quaker. (Reply to this)

hi_im_kelsi
2005-05-29 03:18 pm UTC (link)

i read the first testimony. i like it. its like going to catholic school. i know some catholic students who really liked wearing uniforms. people would have to get to know you based on your personality and not how much money youve spent on clothes. i think the only way i could do this and be comfortable is if i adapted it to having maybe a couple outfits that i really like. im a fashion designer. so my way of expressing myself is through the art of fabric and sewing. its really important to be. this topic though is such a double standard to me. i really like the idea of having clothes be a necessity again and not something to just show off my stuff. necessity as in wearing pants, a shirt, and thats all. or a dress. just something basic to do what clothes are supposed to do. but for me personally, is it bad to wear clothes as an art form? i have worn one outfit for a little over a week, every day i wore it. and it was really nice to not have to fret over something so stupid as clothes. i have a friend who only has two or three outfits and wears them for weeks at a time. he doesnt think its really imprtant to keep changing and showing off his clothes. ok. this is way too long for a reply. and too personal for a post.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

zach_alexander
2005-06-05 12:39 am UTC (link)

I have a friend who is not a Quaker, but very sympaethic, and is also into fashion like yourself... she's very aesthetically-minded, and has often wanted to become a fashion designer. When I told her, I wasn't sure what to expect... she has said she thinkg it can be a beautiful thing, but thought there were some dangers, like basing just as much of our identity in plain dress as we do on normal clothes. And there is the whole issue of whether plain dress means we are subtly demonizing the aesthetic. I don't want it to do that.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

allisburning
2005-05-29 05:31 pm UTC (link)

I try to do this but find it difficult (difficult to find clothing; employers and family members tend to think one is strange).

I'd really like to do it a lot more than I do.

Frankly, I find this to be one of the attractive aspects of living as a Franciscan Friar, a Buddhist monk, or an Indian sadhu. :-)

Links if anybody wants 'em --

http://www.mennonitemaidens.com/Resource.htm

http://www.modestapparelchristianclothinglydiaofpurpledressescustomsewing.com/

http://www.plainlydressed.bravepages.com/

http://www.plainlydressed.com/
(prices seem "average" to me)

http://www.costumes.org/history/100pages/religious_costume.htm#Plain Dress Groups (Amish, Quaker, Hutterite and Mennonite)
(list of links)

.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	mairzydotes 2005-05-30 03:54 am UTC (link)
	Thanks! I found a lot of things I wanted on that second link, do you think her clothes are priced well? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	kibbles 2005-05-30 06:07 am UTC (link)
	FWIW, the second link isn't all 'plain dress', although it is modest and some of it is simple. http://www.wendysmodestdress.com/ I got nice headcoverings from there, as long as we are sharing links. (Reply to this)(Parent)

quaker_ranter
2005-05-30 12:47 pm UTC (link)

Hi zach_alexander,
Thanks for the link! For the record, plain dress doesn't need to be pricey at all (I'm skirting the edge of poverty myself). I just started with my existing dark pants and a pair of cheap suspenders. After a few years, as my pants wore out, I started buying Gohn Brothers broadfalls at $25 apiece; it's as cheap as anything you'd find in Old Navy and it will last four times as long (plus it's sweatshop-free, USA made!). Neither plain nor simple dress should be an excuse to buy a new wardrobe; it sort of defeats the purpose if you do that. I have about three pairs of pants and a half dozen shirts (thrift store mostly, with collars I've taken off). As Friends our way is generally to grow into our ministry and our Quakerism and our clothing choice can reflect that.

If I had just jumped instantly into my current "wardrobe" I would have felt like I was dressing up--I would have been so self-conscious that my heart wouldn't have been plain. Our clothes are only an outward form and plain dress only works if it reflects an inner obedience to the Spirit.
Thy Friend, Martin Kelley

(Reply to this)(Thread)

zach_alexander
2005-05-30 04:36 pm UTC (link)

Well, when I first read this, I agreed with you, but now I'm having second thoughts -- for me, part of the benefit is to no longer have ability to try to impress/whatever people by picking the most appropriate outfit. And if I stuck with my current pants, say, or had half current and half 'plain' pants, I'd still have that temptation to impress or fit in by my clothes. I'd rather not stick out today -- I'll wear the jeans. I'm going to meeting today -- I'll wear the broadfalls. Do you see what I mean?

I suppose this is just an argument for switching a given *item* all at once, not for switching an entire wardrobe at once.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

driftingfocus
2008-09-05 01:09 am UTC (link)

One method might be to just move more toward dressing simply, for now.

I dress in what Quaker Jane calls "Plain Modern" style, most of the time, and while I have on rare occasion gotten commentary, I find that it generally is a good compromise. I have my own post about this (with photos, for illustration), which can be found here: http://innerquiet.wordpress.com/2008/08/25/my-fashion-or-lack-thereof/

(Reply to this)(Parent)

snowwhitetan
2005-06-04 10:19 pm UTC (link)

I think it's a good idea, though I have a difficult time doing it because I have been dressing a certain way for years (not plain, but not expensive clothes by any means). I have piercings and a few tattoos and I like to dress in interesting outfits. Since I became a Quaker over a year ago, it has been hard to change that. I think if it is important to you, you should practice it.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

	zach_alexander 2005-06-05 12:41 am UTC (link)
	Yeah, it's funny -- I've been wanting to get some tattoos, but it seems a little inconsistent to get tattoos but dress plain... not sure what I'll do. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

snowwhitetan
2005-06-07 04:33 am UTC (link)

:it seems a little inconsistent to get tattoos but dress plain..."

Yeah, it does, but it's possible I'm sure;-) I personally think the most important thing is not so much the "plain dress" as the attitude that accompanies not placing a high value on our possessions (incl. clothes) and trying to live simply. That is what I try to focus on instead since I'll probably never be a plain dresser;-)

(Reply to this)(Parent)

_darkvictory
2005-06-12 11:46 pm UTC (link)

While investigating modest dress I came across this plain dress site:
http://www.quakerjane.com

Offers lots of information about making the decision, getting started, etc.
The site speaks of "limiting your palette in an addle-pated world". That phrase appealed to me.

I do not practice plain dress, but I have taken to covering my head as part of a general simplification of personal presentation.

(Reply to this)

	modest dress (Anonymous) 2005-11-28 09:18 am UTC (link)
	Modest dress company MikaRose at http://www.mikarose.com/ offers modest dresses for individuals looking for modern dresses that are feminine,elegant without sacrificing style. (Reply to this)

	radical plainess (Anonymous) 2007-01-15 03:27 am UTC (link)
	I'm more on the radical simplicity head trip...only buy used and never buy if I can do without. leaves me with more cash flow for travel and spending time with my family.anyway,check out Peace Pilgrim.org you can order her book and lots of other things for free.this woman was true simplicity personified.let me know what you think-charity (Reply to this)

	Modest dresses for sale with the coverings (Anonymous) 2007-03-23 05:15 pm UTC (link)
	I sell modest dresses http://modestdresseswithcoverings.bravehost.com/jean_dresses.html (Reply to this)

	Modest dresses (Anonymous) 2008-02-13 10:34 pm UTC (link)
	I know of this site that many women are looking for modest dresses, so if you sew, are have some modest dresses, jumpers for sale, you can go here http://groups.yahoo.com/group/homekeepermodestandmoreshop/ Also you can find women who make head coverings, can sew you you a modest dress. Karen (Reply to this)

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